General:Interview with the Bethesda Softworks' Elder Scrolls Team

Interview with the Bethesda Softworks' Elder Scrolls Team
(link)
Medium/Format	Online Interview
Date	1997
Interviewee(s)	Julian Lefay Ken Rolston Todd Howard
Interviewer(s)	Desslock
Hosted By	GamePen (deprecated)

Interview with: The following members of Bethesda Softworks’ Elder Scrolls development team: Julian LeFay (Project Leader of Battlespire), Ken Rolston (Designer of Battlespire) and Todd Howard (Project Leader of Redguard).

Some Questions About the Plot and Design

Desslock: To describe Battlespire in a nutshell from the information (and judging from the beta version demonstrated at the E3), Battlespire appears to be an action oriented role-playing game which takes a number of key features of Daggerfall, such as the character generation system, combat and magic systems, the interface and core game engine, but adds SVGA graphics and a number of graphical effects and features and includes multiplayer capabilities. Is that a fair (if simplistic!) assessment?

Julian: One of the things I want to emphasize right now, very strongly, is that Battlespire is not an "action" game. There may be a little more action than Daggerfall in the sense that there are no guilds in the game, and because some of the aspects of Daggerfall are not in the game, so that you may end up doing more fighting than you otherwise would in a relative sense, but Battlespire is clearly not a "Hexen 2" type of game – you do have to dialogue with people, pick up inventory, etc. We carried forward a lot of elements from Daggerfall, but added a number of different things such as SVGA graphics, graphic effects, multiplayer, etc. So I would say that your statement is a fair, but simplistic, assessment.

Desslock: It’s interesting that you touched on the comparison between Battlespire and Raven Software’s Hexen 2, because I do think that there is some gamers who have perceived that, when compared to Daggerfall, Battlespire may be similar to an action game such as Hexen 2. From viewing at Battlespire at the e3 and based upon the material you have made available at your website and elsewhere, I definitely agree that Battlespire is a role-playing game (which is why it’s included in this feature), and Hexen 2 is not, and doesn’t try to be one. How would you respond to that public perception?

Julian: Right, if you want to draw a parallel, Looking Glass’s Ultima Underworld games are much closer to what we’re doing with Battlespire. Battlespire has nice high color, dynamic lighting, high resolution graphics, etc. so it does have some of technology associated with action games, but the concept is much closer to the Underworld series than Hexen 2. I’ve seen Hexen 2 and it’s a nice game, but it really has nothing to do with what we do, and I have no interest in competing with an action game, so those comparisons concern me. In the end, people have to realize that we come from the direction of Daggerfall. Hexen 2 came from the direction of Quake. If you put it like this, you really get the picture quite clearly.

Desslock: Were any of these new features that you would have liked to have included in Daggerfall but were, at the time, unable to include (er, not as if you didn’t include just about everything else but the kitchen sink…) ?

Julian: Some of them yes, but generally what Battlespire was designed to do was to create a more focused game – not one of the big, big games. With Battlespire we wanted to try a few new things without having to create a whole new TES game. So there are interface improvements, hotkey additions, everything is much more graphical, functionality, combat system improvements, changes to monster behavior, exploring new ways of doing dialogue. Some of it is new, some taken from Daggerfall, and some of it will no doubt be retained for Morrowind, but we’ll have to see what the feedback is on a lot of our changes. Battlespire is probably the most polished game I’ve ever been part of, everything is very slick, which was one of our main goals because Daggerfall didn’t really have quite that polished feel or look to it.

We made a number of Spellmaker changes, you can’t put compound effects on spells anymore, but you can fire them off in a variety of ways on the fly, bouncing them around corners, etc. Also the ability to put hotkeys on equipment so that you can quickly use items or switch between primary and secondary weapons. We’ve also made dialogue changes – dialogue in Daggerfall was never really satisfying, it was more of a query system. In Battlespire it actually comes across as dialogue, you’re a little more limited on what you can say, but it reads very well, and it’s very, very funny in parts – hysterical is some parts, which made me a little nervous at first, but it works really well.

We’ve also made a number of AI improvments – huge number actually, a lot of which we talked about in Daggerfall but never really had the time to do and they are pretty clever. Monsters are really smart – you can’t just duck around corners and hide…

Desslock: Right, so monsters may track you by smell or may hear you around a corner?

Julian: Exactly, they’ll check all kinds of factors. Monsters will be able to climb up spiral stairs to find you, etc. They’re pretty clever in that regard. Because monsters make decisions, sometimes they’ll flee, and run off into corners and hide from you, which actually causes people to wonder whether or not that’s a bug because people aren’t used to seeing "realistic" behavior.

Even though the elements in Battlespire are a subset of what is in Daggerfall, I think all of the elements in Battlespire are much better done.

Desslock: You’ve indicated that the plot of Battlespire involves battling the evil Daedra Prince, Mechrunes, who has taken over the dimension where the Battlespire, the proving ground for would-be Battlemages, is located. Can you give us a few additional plot tidbits? How does this fall into the TES timeline?

Ken: The villain of Arena, Jagar Tharn, is ultimately responsible for the invasion of Battlespire. Traitors within Battlespire who opened the gate to Mehrunes Dagon's daedric troops were suborned by agents of Jagar Tharn. By asking the right questions, you can learn who the agents were, and which mage betrayed Battlespire. You may find both the agent and the traitor, and mete out justice to them.

Further, Jagar Tharn's imposture as Emperor is revealed and frustrated by the hero of Arena. However, the hero of Battlespire may also contribute substantially to the fall of Jagar Tharn, in that the defeat of Mehrunes Dagon robs Tharn of Dagon's assistance. [Dagon helped Tharn pose as the Emperor, and also gave Tharn access to daedric troops and weapons.]

Desslock: Does Battlespire take place entirely within the "test proving grounds"? How varied are the locations within the Battlespire?

Ken: Battlespire does not take place exclusively within Battlespire. The games action takes place initially in Battlespire, but proceeds through a sequence of pocket dimensions as the hero backtracks the invading daedric troops to the citadel and private retreat of Mehrunes Dagon.

Desslock: Are there potentially multiple endings to Battlespire, similar to Daggerfall, or do all roads ultimately lead to stomping poor old Mechrunes?

Ken: Battlespire does not have alternative endings like Daggerfall. However, you CAN finish Battlespire in less than 200 hours of gameplay, AND lead a tolerably normal life, including occasional glimpses of the sun.

Some Questions on Gameplay:

Desslock: Will the gameplay and/or plot of Battlespire vary depending upon your character class, or do the variety of character classes?

Ken: Different character classes -- and different character conceptions in general -- have particular skills, abilities, and resources. No one is going to ask you if you are a Knight, then give you a pretty present... but Knights are going to be short on spellcasting and long on armor and personal rough stuff.

Desslock: I understand that Battlespire, unlike some other action oriented RPG dungeon crawls (going back to FTL’s "Dungeon Master"), will include some meaningful interaction with non-player characters and certain intelligent creatures you meet. Can you elaborate on what you have planned in this regard? How many different "talking" NPC’s are there?

Ken: In Battlespire, "if it moves, talk to it! Or you'll be sad." Why? for one thing, some things are stupid, and you can trick them into giving you resources [which you admittedly could often get by murdering it] or information [which you CAN'T get if you murder it].

For two things, some things are your friends, or at least the enemies of your enemies, and can be persuaded, tricked, or intimidated to doing important things for you, including pounding on other monsters.

For three things, even the nastiest, most malevolent monsters reveal a lot about what's going in in the scenarios by their responses to your dialog.

For four things, some things seem to all intents invulnerable to mortal weapons, BUT there are some sneaky ways to kill them and take their stuff ONLY available through tricky dialog.

For five things, the dialog gives you insight into the personalities and motivations of the creatures. In particular, getting an intimate sense of the nasty and annoying natures of the monsters adds spice and savor to your righteous hammering upon them.When you get to know them, you REALLY understand how bad they NEED killing.

For six things, you learn stuff that is important for figuring out some of the narrative and physical challenges you will face, like where to find keys and arcane engines of death and destruction.

For seven things, the dialog is witty and colorful, and entertaining in its own right, like the quotable patter from a good action movie.

For eight things, dialog is a handy tool for exposition, which helps you understand and appreciate all the cool and complex elements of the setting, characters, and narrative that makes your epic adventure more deep and meaningful than a three-state killing spree.

Desslock: What changes did you make to the real time, first person perspective combat system of Daggerfall in preparation for the multiplayer combat of Battlespire?

Julian: The main thing that stays the same is that you move your mouse to move your sword or weapon – that’s the same as in Daggerfall. We threw in a couple of special moves, if you hold down a special move key (of course you can reassign all the keys) you can duck or slam into opponents and knock them back – frequently useful if you are cornered or just want some more room to maneuver. You get knocked back in combat now, which is actually one of the most common ways of getting killed in the final level because there are all kinds of high ledges and bridges over lava, etc.

Also the fact that spells and items are on hotkeys really lets you do a lot more, which is especially relevant for multiplayer games, since human opponents won’t give you a break like monsters sometimes will. The bouncing spells into rooms, etc. adds a lot more strategy too. But if you want to just use the old system and wave your mouse, you can do that too. We tried to not disrupt the old system, which was popular, but add more features for people who wanted to get into it.

Desslock: One of the features of Daggerfall which received a lot of praise was the comprehensive character creation system. Is the Battlespire character creation system essentially a modified version of the one used in Daggerfall? How many different character classes are there in Battlespire? Can you create your own character class as in Daggerfall?

Julian: We took out the psych profile, and we took out the background. But then what we added in were icons making the point system easier to deal with, and covered up a number of the loop holes in the old system. For example, under the Daggerfall system you could just prohibit "iron" items, which was basically free points, because no one really cared about -- now you set your "maximum available material", which means that if you select ‘iron" you won’t be able to ever use anything out or Iron or better material. You can also buy magic items and spells in the initial character generation system, but you get a certain number of points, so you’ll have to give something else up.

We did include the 18 character classes in Daggerfall, so they are there, but Battlespire is generally all geared around custom character generation. I like to max out on spell points and spell absorption and not worry too much about the combat skills, other people ignore spells, but you can’t have it all, although in multiplayer you can choose to have a "higher point" game, allowing you to have super characters if you want.

Desslock: So you can choose all of the pre-generated character classes in Daggerfall – so if you were are real masochist and wanted to fight Daedra with a "burglar"…

Julian: Heh, yeah well… they are all useful, but certainly some are much more useful than others.

Desslock: Well, if you want a bigger challenge…

Julian: Exactly. Some people are having fun generating a "3 stoogies" type character, with lots of luck and wounds, and not much else. It gets pretty weird.

Desslock: Another feature that received a lot of praise in Daggerfall was the spell casting and creation systems. I understand that you’ve added some additional tweaks to the spell creation system for Battlespire, and that you’ll now be able to add various gravity effects. Please elaborate on any changes you’ve made to these systems.

Julian: There are a couple of differences. The main thing is that you can’t do compound effects. That feature will probably be back for Morrowind, but for simplicity we did it differently in Battlespire. You can, however, change things "on the fly", you can change the elements, the delivery method, the detonation time, icons, all kinds of stuff so that you can change the nature of a spell on the fly – and assign it to a hotkey. So there are a couple additions and a couple subtractions. It’s a different kind of system, but has the same feel. All of the effects are the same from Daggerfall, there really are no new ones.

Desslock: … other than the "gravity effects"?

Julian: Right, all detonation types are new. There’s three types – one detonates on anything it hits, another is "organic", so it’ll bounce down rooms and everything else until it hits something organic. You can also add "organic drop", which will let it drop down and bounce along, kind of like a grenade.

Desslock: Until it hits some poor sap.

Julian: Yeah, they’re fun. Every once in a while you’ll miss, and you won’t know where your spell is going to end up.

Desslock: On the negative side, Daggerfall’s dungeons were criticized because they were "too random" (other than the main quest dungeons). Did the comparatively limited scope of Battlespire give you the opportunity to focus on dungeon design and layout and really show what your proprietary XnGine is capable of?

Julian: You’re right, there are so many dungeons in Daggerfall that some of them became repetitive. Every single object in Battlespire is custom built, every one – so there’s nothing generic about any of it.

Desslock: Is it all one big dungeon with different types of areas?

Julian: It’s essentially seven dungeons. You start off in the normal Battlespire, except of course it has been taken over by nasties, then you start going through different realms, leading to the Daedra’s castle at the end. The realms are connected.

For example, Level 5, a big outdoor area is floating in a big ocean which has been transported there is essentially a big hunt on you, an old Celtic hunt with wolves, etc. Hopefully you find a way to escape, but you’ll also discover other information about other realms. The story in Battlespire is a lot better than in Arena or Daggerfall. – by far, as it’s a lot deeper and the story builds much better. NPCs initiate conversations, which gets you involved in the story, so you don’t want to just kill things unnecessarily.

Also monsters will actually switch sides and fight along with you. A huge melee can result while you stand back and watch.

Desslock: How many different monsters or enemies are there in Battlespire?

Julian: Around 20, a couple of which are from Daggerfall but the rest are new.

Desslock: How many hours of do you anticipate it will take the average gamer to complete the main story in Battlespire? By way of comparison, how many hours of gameplay will there be in Morrowind?

Julian: We’re estimated 40 hours for Battlespire, but it’ll depend on your playing style. Some levels are really huge, and it’ll take a while to go through them. I think 40 is a safe bet, but it’ll probably take most people longer. Morrowind will be much bigger.

Some Questions about the Graphics, Sound and Interface:

Desslock: Battlespire, like Daggerfall and several of your other recent and upcoming games, features your versatile 3d graphics engine, XnGine. Does Battlespire feature the same combination of 3d polygonal objects and "2d" sprites as Daggerfall? Will Morrowind use a different graphics engine?

Julian: Yes, Battlespire features the same style as Daggerfall, but it’s been revamped for high resolution, high color, and include a lot of the special effects such as better water and better sky, etc. We’re still going with sprites because they still look way better than polygons, unless you take a couple years and do something like Tomb Raider, sprites look better.

As for Morrowind, we will probably proceed to go to 3d polygons, provided that we will be capable of doing enough polygons, enough frames, etc. Few polygon games look good right now, in my opinion, it looks very blocky. Tomb Raider, "Into the Shadows", which never came out, both look good, but most others don’t. 3d is becoming a bit of a fad, and I don’t want to do it until it will look better than what we can do right now. The sprite monsters we have right now have twice the number of frames of the Daggerfall ones, and twice the size – they look much better and have nice details.

Desslock: Daggerfall – VGA graphics. Battlespire – 640x480 SVGA graphics with up to 32 bit color, dynamic lighting and other effects -- a significant enhancement over the TES games. Battlespire is clearly not your mother’s Daggerfall. Please elaborate on some of the improvements you have made to the XnGine for Battlespire?

Julian: Actually, the color is only 16 bit. But that’s for the unaccelerated version. Lighting changes, SVG graphics, water effects, etc.

Desslock: What changes have you made to Daggerfall’s interface? Can you still control the game using either a "view based" (i.e. move the mouse in a particular direction and your character looks in that direction) or "cursor based" (i.e moving the mouse over different areas on the screen changes the manner in which your character moves)? Editorial comment: the view based system really does "rule".

Julian: We’ve added hotkeys and a help scroll, like in Windows. You can still play in either "view based" or "cursor based", and they work the same as always. Full screen help buttons, we tried to make it very helpful – it’s all very polished.

Desslock: I understand that Battlespire will use Redbook/CD audio as opposed to Midi/wavetable sound, which was used by Daggerfall. What was the reason for the change?

Julian: CD audio just sounds tons better. If you have a good wavetable card, Midi sounds good, but most people don’t have a "good" wavetable card. ROM sampling is limited, some people still have only FM synthesis, so we have to support that – Redbook sounds good for everyone, and doesn’t have the CPU hit.Battlespire

Desslock: You’ve demonstrated quite a few compelling video cut-scenes for Battlespire – do they play a bigger role than they did in Daggefall, or are they essentially limited to the introduction and the end of the game?

Julian: Hey, we actually planned them out and did them before the last day! In Arena and Daggerfall it was really an afterthough. This time we contracted that job out to a really good group which we promptly absorbed. The cut-scenes just appear at the beginning at the end.

Desslock: You’ve indicated that the initial release of Battlespire will include support for 3dfx graphics cards. Is it a "glide" (3dfx native) adaption? Are there additional graphical effects included in the 3dfx version, such as bilinear filtering, or does the 3d enhanced version mainly improve frame rates? Do you anticipate releasing other 3d accelerated versions?

Julian: We have a 3dfx version running right now, but we’re not quite sure what we are going to do with it. For Battlespire, we run into various issues because the cards don’t have enough memory…

Desslock: …for texture mapping?

Julian: Exactly, it has 2 megs, but Battlespire uses 8 megs, so we have to compress things down, or move them around. We’re still considering what to do. Nice card otherwise. So we are unsure what we are going to do with a 3dfx version.

If we do release the version, we will include bilinear filtering, water effects, etc. The effects look better with the 3dfx version, Battlespirebut texture mapping and the lighting do not.

Desslock: Does Battlespire feature an automap function similar to that of Daggerfall?

Julian: No, I didn’t like the automap for Daggerfall – I had a hard time following it. I liked the Arena one much better. So we have a hybrid this time, but its much closer to the one in Arena.

Desslock: You’ve included a "plethora/cornucopia/whole mess" of multiplayer options with Battlespire – everything from player death matches to cooperative play against computer. Can you actually play through the entire game cooperatively with a group of "adventurers"? Any "capture the flag" or other "Quakish" <gack> variations on gameplay?

Julian: You can play cooperatively through the entire game – save after every level. You have to work your way through in order to get to the later levels. There are separate death match levels. With teams, each team tries to solve the levels, but only one team can solve the level – for example, in level 4 you need 4 items, but we only put out 7, so sooner or later one of the teams is going to have to attack the other. When you die your character loses all of the items you had other than your initial starting items. So a penalty of being killed is losing all your goodies.

Desslock: Your webpage (nice revamp, by the way) for Battlespire indicates that LAN and Internet play will be included for up to 8 players. Is the "8-player" figure only for LAN games? If so, how many players do you expect will be able to play an internet multiplayer game without getting bogged down in internet lag? Will there be modem-modem support?

Julian: Right now our plan is to go with Mplayer and LAN – those are the things that are currently in and working. That’s one aspect I’m not actually doing, so I’m not sure about the 8 player internet testing. We did test it on LAN. We pretty much wrote the multiplayer code assuming that players had no bandwith, so we should be able to support 8 players, in fact, we should be able to support 16.

[UESP Editor's Note: Part Four of this interview, which included an interview with Todd Howard, as well as Lefay and Rolston, about Redguard and The Elder Scrolls III, has been lost to time.]