User talk:Eshe/Archive 16

This is an archive of past User talk:Eshe discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Small Project Help Request

Hi Eshe! I'm trying to make some changes to the Skyrim:Services and Skyrim:Transport pages, and i could use some help with it. The intent is to add the Hearthfire carriage drivers list of settlements that can be visited to the Transport page, and to add the carriage drivers and ferrymen to the list of services available on the Services page, with a link back (like the rest of the services have). I'm not sure exactly what wiki protocol would be in formatting these additional items into existing pages. And I don't know the markup for this kind of project. I have added information to both talk pages, would you be willing to help me with this? If you have the time, I know you have a full plate here. :) Thanks! --Crayolamanic (talk) 00:53, 2 March 2013 (GMT)

I just remembered that I also don't know how to do the icon for the service like the rest of the list has. I think the section on the carriage drivers will need to be reworded to reflect new available destinations as it specifically states that only the hold capitals are reachable by carriage (which is why I picked up this trail in the first place). I see what needs to be done, but am at a bit of loss as to the steps, and how to keep the continuity of the style here. Again, thanks! :) --Crayolamanic (talk) 01:02, 2 March 2013 (GMT)

IRC

ASAP. --Krusty (talk) 14:13, 4 March 2013 (GMT)

oblivion: fortify fatigue

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Fortify_Fatigue For your undo of 50.99.131.84 (me), the wording is technically incorrect. More fatigue doesn't increase damage. Dawn (talk) 08:00, 5 March 2013 (GMT)

I mean as i understand it. you should do same damage when you have max fatigue, with or without fortify fatigue. As you fight and fatigue lowers, damage lowers as well by a percentage. With fortify fatigue, the percentage is smaller. Dawn (talk) 08:10, 5 March 2013 (GMT)

so i guess it does 'increase damage'. still, it's confusing. Most people would take it to mean "more fatigue increases max damage" Dawn (talk) 08:11, 5 March 2013 (GMT)

Banners

Are you sure? I was told otherwise. From what I was told, all the icons and banners for skyrim are technically just carefully cropped screenshot. Is this not the case? And if it isn't, why didn't they just extract the whole bunch when the others were extracted, rather than do it one by one? Jeancey (talk) 03:01, 8 March 2013 (GMT)

Yep, I'm sure. I know because I got a few myself when the last bunch was done, and mine looked exactly the same as the ones in use (I was just too slow). They're a real pain to get, though, and we can't grab the Dragonborn ones yet because the CK hasn't been updated with the necessary file. ⇠eshe^talk 03:12, 8 March 2013 (GMT)

Silencer says there are still dozens of banners from the base game that haven't been uploaded yet... Jeancey (talk) 03:33, 8 March 2013 (GMT)

I was able to kind of retrieve the banner images for Dragonborn (as well as the map icons) from the data that I got from my 360 version, but it was a very long process and I ultimately could not get a .png version of any of them. If you still want them, though, I could probably go back and just use Prt Scr to get the images. • JA^T 04:56, 8 March 2013 (GMT)

Jak: Don't worry about it--I keep hoping well get the update any day now...fingers crossed ;).

Jeancey: Dozens? I mean, I can think of maybe two or three generic ones (like player house decorations), but what else would we need that we're missing? ⇠eshe^talk 12:21, 8 March 2013 (GMT)

I don't know 100% but silencer mentioned that all the smaller towns have their own banners, as well as all the temples in the cities, the orc strongholds, and possibly some of the smaller factions (forsworn, Summerset Shadows, Silver Hand, etc). Not sure if they do, but that's what he said (basically, I'm extrapolating a little). Jeancey (talk) 16:07, 8 March 2013 (GMT)

Well, I can poke around in the CK this evening when I get home and see what I can find. So far I haven't been able to get my paws on any banners that aren't static, but I'll see what I can do. Most likely if someone posted a request for it Roger would be able to grab them all before I even get a chance to figure it out, but I'll certainly try anyway—it's been bugging me that I couldn't get at them :P. ⇠eshe^talk 16:17, 8 March 2013 (GMT)

Vampirism Gallery Improvement

Hi eshe! Wanted to point you in the direction of a sandbox of mine (User:GodRaine/Sandbox2) that contains some proposed changes to Skyrim:Vampirism. Let me know what you think! :) GodRaine^Talk 04:20, 9 March 2013 (GMT)

Hi :p

Since we've apparently taken to random postings on other pages... Where's mine? I thought we were friends? D:

Yes, I am shockingly up before 2PM, (Been up since 7AM), and because I'm up so early, I have f- all to do, so I am randomly messaging you for no reason at all. But, that's why everyone likes me... Or do they? Maybe they all just pretend... :O

Anyways, take care, Eshe. :) Snowmane➚^{(talk•email)} 14:03, 12 March 2013 (GMT)

lol, it wasn't exactly random, but okay. Good morning! ⇠eshe^talk 14:06, 12 March 2013 (GMT)

Impartial and Objective Review Request

Hi Eshe, just wondering if you could pass your administrative eye over this revert to one of my contributions to a lore-related discussion. As you will no doubt see from reading the latter parts of the discussion, I had already relinquished my position in this debate, by saying "In lieu of an answer one way or the other, I withdraw my objection to the claim that, for the purposes of the Elder Scrolls games, malachite is volcanic in origin", thinking that this would be the end of the matter until corroborating evidence could be provided, as Jeancey had suggested. However, this was not the end of it, and I have chosen to follow the wisdom of the Etiquette guidelines, that "taking a time out is a good way to avoid saying something you might regret later."

This is my first debate on a matter of Lore on the UESP wiki, and throughout the discussion I have tried to adhere to the spirit of the Etiquette guidelines, taking a subservient tone as befitting my lack of experience with TES lore. I have been polite throughout, acknowledging opposing views and thanking contributors for their input. However, after my abjuration post, as quoted above, the cudgel was picked up by The Silencer, with this comment, including the view that "any future discussions are best held without trying to compare a game to the real world". I then replied with the comment "Erm, you still haven't pointed to anything in-game that conclusively says it is so, Silencer, but I'll leave it there, to avoid this scholarly Lore debate devolving into a flame war." The point I was trying to make with this comment was that, in the complete absence of any in-game corroboration for the status quo, I have relied on real-world information. Despite this, I have already relinquished my position about the debate, in favour of Jeancey's suggestion of contacting a Bethesda employee for further corroboration.

My comment was immediately reverted by The Silencer, with the edit summary of "which is what this is doing", implying that my legitimate claim of a lack of in-game evidence is in some way causing the discussion to devolve into a flame war. I haven't responded or reacted to that revert until now. I am turning to you, as an administrator, to adjudicate on whether this revert of my comment was justified. I am happy to abide by your decision, whatever it may be. I am trying to be an active and positive new member of this community. I might point out that I know I don't always "get it right", being that I have Asperger Syndrome (as mentioned on my profile page) which means I sometimes have difficulty with social interactions. — Daric✐ 09:25, 27 March 2013 (GMT)

I agree—it doesn't strike me as an uncivil or "flamer..ish...?" comment at all, so I've gone ahead and restored it (with a quick note explaining why). That was actually one of the more civil debates I've seen in Lorespace, but I understand it can be frustrating when people disagree so strongly and the discussion isn't really getting anywhere. I'm sure The Silencer was just trying to prevent things from turning nasty, as you were, and I appreciate that you sought out a third party rather than just revert it yourself, which could easily have made things worse. Hopefully the next discussion will be even more productive ;).

Also, for what it's worth, I live with someone who has Aspergers, so I've got a lot of practice helping sort out social interactions. You can always post here if you have a question about something, or feel free to shoot me an email if you'd prefer :). ⇠eshe^talk 13:42, 27 March 2013 (GMT)

Thanks for that Eshe. Oh, and it's Daric, by the way, not Garic. hehehe. — Daric✐ 13:48, 27 March 2013 (GMT)

Okay, that's embarrassing. I swear I knew that, and fully blame this on my not having had any coffee yet this morning...yikes. ⇠eshe^talk 13:54, 27 March 2013 (GMT)

I'll save you a slice of my wife's birthday cake then. It's her birthday today, and for a treat she wanted to create her own cheesecake with me in our kitchen. It's got a coffee crumble base, peanut-butter flavoured cheesecake filling, and coffee flavoured icing, with some smashed up Kopiko sweets on top. It was her choice of flavours, and we had a great time tonight in the kitchen together making it. We don't cook together often, so it was nice. — Daric✐ 14:07, 27 March 2013 (GMT)

Oh my god, I need that! I'm drooling all over my desk now O.o ⇠eshe^talk 14:13, 27 March 2013 (GMT)

I think RobinHood70 has Aspergers as well, and I'm autistic, so don't worry about it mister... it was Gary, right? ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 14:21, 27 March 2013 (GMT)

Yes, he does. :Þ – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 19:08, 27 March 2013 (GMT)

It's like a Spectrum club in here! Love it :D. ⇠eshe^talk 19:14, 27 March 2013 (GMT)

(←) I was in a Spectrum Club once, but back then they had Z80 chips in them, LOL. — Daric✐ 19:42, 27 March 2013 (GMT)

Cite error

Would you be willing to please fix reference 24 here? It appears both in the middle and end of the paragraph on the Ayleids. For some reason it is giving me a cite error even after directly copying it from another article that works fine. Thanks in advance. -- Ad Intellige Mecum loqui 16:09, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

Well, I was about to guess it's a namespace issue (all kinds of links and templates break when you move them to userspace), but on fiddling with it, it looks like it needed {{Cite book|2920, Second Seed (v5)}} in order to "load" the book information for the references section. I mimicked the spot on Lore:Ayleid where it was used, but the </ref> tags were showing, so I changed <ref name= 2920SecondSeed/> to <ref name= 2920SecondSeed> and that apparently did the trick. Hope that helps! ⇠eshe^talk 16:30, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

I moved it to my userspace after getting the same error while previewing it in the lore space. But thanks a ton for the help with that! -- Ad Intellige Mecum loqui 16:33, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

No problem! Glad it worked ;). ⇠eshe^talk 16:52, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

So am I :). Do you happen to know any way to use the Showhide template to hide all of the references? -- Ad Intellige Mecum loqui 17:00, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

Now that one I do know! {{Showhide}} doesn't play very nicely when you put any kind of fancy formatting in it, so you have to use {{Showhide/Start}} and {{Showhide/End}}. This should work, as an example:

{{Showhide/Start|References}}
<references/>
'''Note:''' the following references are not found in game. They are included to provide a rounder background to this article, but may not reflect established lore.
<references group="OOG"/>
{{Showhide/End}}

The "References" part in {{Showhide/Start|References}} will appear as a bold, centered "header" above all the hideable text. If you don't want a header (probably not a bad idea in this case), just leave that blank: {{Showhide/Start|}}. Note that if you leave the pipe out, you'll get {{{1}}} instead, so don't do that ;). ⇠eshe^talk 17:43, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

I copied that but if you look at my sandbox, it doesn't work as intended. -- Ad Intellige Mecum loqui 17:57, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

It should work—I think you're just missing the first bracket on {{Showhide/Start|}}. ⇠eshe^talk 18:01, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

Now I feel really stupid. I guess I should have read a bit more carefully then. -- Ad Intellige Mecum loqui 18:06, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

Believe me, 99% of the time when something I'm trying to do goes horribly wrong, it's something stupid like an extra space or a missing ] from a link. Don't feel bad! Templates are a pain, and you're allowed to fight with them :P. ⇠eshe^talk 18:10, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

Oops

Sorry, I wasn't aware that regular bandits had that dialogue too. --Jimeee (talk) 16:38, 4 April 2013 (GMT)

No worries! There's too many on that list to remember them all ;).

Or should I say: "...there's too many on that list... ...can't remember 'em all..." :P ⇠eshe^talk 16:40, 4 April 2013 (GMT)

Great, need not to start a new section. Just another request. I've collected some dialogues of the Forsworn. No doubt, they need much improvement. I can hardly get them down without the help of CK. May I have your help? Thanks Dreamshadow (talk) 02:30, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

I actually just went through and checked the dialogue on the page using CSList, and it looks to me like most of them are actually generic dialogue lines that can be used by many groups. I've gone ahead and removed those (and some grunty combat lines, which are also generic, and aren't really that interesting anyway), trimming the list down to a small handful of lines that are Forsworn-specific. I have looked a little bit for Forsworn dialogue, and this is all I've found so far, but if you have more that would be fantastic. Do you have examples of more lines you've found? I'd be happy to take a look :). Thanks! ⇠eshe^talk 14:09, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

Well done! I think we still need some generic dialogues for bandits. 1 They notice some movements and try to find you. 2 They tried to find you but failed. 3 They find a dead body (we have only one now, I think there would be more). Just this now. Thank you~ Dreamshadow (talk) 14:35, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

Cool—I'll do some digging and see what I can find! ⇠eshe^talk 14:58, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

Copycat! :p

Yes, a template could work - or some css and a div class (could be more flexible for other skins). --Jimeee (talk) 14:29, 4 April 2013 (GMT)

You caught me! :D

We've actually been using that dotty box on a few pages, and it seems high time these design elements were added to the style guide so other people can easily use them when needed. I stole yours as an alternative option ;). I actually love how you did the dialogue layout in your sandbox, so I'm thinking about proposing that as a good way to handle conversations with multiple options as well. So...nice work! :D⇠eshe^talk 14:49, 4 April 2013 (GMT)

Thanks! - yeah, I largely based the page style on excellent Delphine and Rikke pages, with a few tweaks. The convo colored dialogue box thingy I feel is subtle, but gives the design a little twist. I also prefer the bulleted dialogue option style for some parts as it gives a clearer structure of what option is presented when, although it gives a bit less freedom when it come to writing around them, which is the downside. I'm trying to get it somewhere in the middle. :) --Jimeee (talk) 14:59, 4 April 2013 (GMT)

Does this do anything that the {{Notice}} template does not? Just seems like the same thing with different default colors to me... — TheRealLurlock (talk) 15:36, 4 April 2013 (GMT)

I suppose not, but it has a more specific purpose. I think {{Quote Box}} or something would be easier to remember for these specific cases, and has the added benefit of a default cohesive look. The point would be to make sure it looks the same everywhere it's used, and it would be easier to do it with a separate template than trying to remember all the different values (like the code for the wiki's background color). ⇠eshe^talk 15:40, 4 April 2013 (GMT)

I'm not sure if the Notice template supports dotted borders now that I think of it, but it'd be simple enough to add the feature (along with dashed, double-line, and adjustable width, or even snazzier features such as rounded/beveled corners, which I believe is possible.) You could also do what a number of other such templates do which is to simply wrap the Notice template with a different set of default parameters. (Notice is used as a sub-template of quite a number of others already, so there's precedence.) Just seems simpler to incorporate all such features in a single template rather than reinvent the wheel for every minor cosmetic variant, though. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 18:20, 4 April 2013 (GMT)

Well given that I've literally only just started playing with it, I don't even know that it's going to be a template yet, or what it would look like, or if it would use other templates as a base. Plus, I have no plan to make a bunch of different variants, or even two; I'm just thinking of making this one for easy use on NPC pages (easy in the sense that it's convenient and in the sense that it'll be easier for people who are less familiar with templates to use). Anyway, I'm just carrying out a thought process in a sandbox, so...give me a chance to think about it, maybe? ;) ⇠eshe^talk 19:06, 4 April 2013 (GMT)

It's okay, no pressure or anything. I just wanted to make sure you were aware of an already-existing template with much of the same functionality, which might be useful either as a subtemplate or just as a reference. To be honest, I actually had to search a bit to find it myself. I knew it existed but forgot what it was called, and it's not as well categorized as it possibly should be. Anyhow, don't mind me, carry on. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 22:38, 4 April 2013 (GMT)

Identity Crisis

"In addition, your username should not contain [...] names that include commonly used software or community terms."

I trust my concern is obvious ---> Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 03:49, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

I assume you're talking about the proposed guideline in my sandbox here. To be honest I've barely touched that page since I put it up, and that line was copied directly from an existing page (I think the account creation page). It's something we could examine more closely, I guess, but obviously your username is fine, or else somebody would have said something by now ;). ⇠eshe^talk 14:09, 5 April 2013 (GMT)

Testing RevisionDelete

Test post!

Very rude response!

Response!

Male & Female icons

Hi Eshe, I've only just noticed that recent changes to the {{m}} and {{f}} templates seems to have added a carriage return after the icons. Not sure if this was intentional, but it does break some of my pages (such as this one) where I use the icons in line with the text. Any chance this could be fixed please? — Daric✐ 04:08, 12 April 2013 (GMT)

Okay, that issue's fixed...hopefully without breaking anything else! :) – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 04:18, 12 April 2013 (GMT)

Awesome, that looks much better. Thanks. — Daric✐ 06:47, 12 April 2013 (GMT)

I wonder if there's a related problem with Template:NPC Data. No matter how often I purge, I see the text [[File:MaleIconLight.png in the "Gender" column and Male]] in the "Race" column. --Holomay (talk) 07:36, 12 April 2013 (GMT)

That looks to me more like something to do with tables conflicting with encapsulated upright bars. This problem is normally overcome using the {{!}} template somewhere. My brain is not up to delving through the template stack to find the offending upright bar at present though, sorry. — Daric✐ 08:47, 12 April 2013 (GMT)

Gah! That was the result of my changes to the gender templates. When they get no align parameter, they put out, for example, [[File:MaleIconLight.png||20x20px|Male]]. The || in the middle is being interpreted as a cell division. Adding a space between seems to have fixed it, but it's definitely a bit tricky to manage. Let me know if anything else seems to have broken anywhere. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 18:08, 12 April 2013 (GMT)

Specific dialogue

I've noticed this change here, http://www.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Skyrim:Bandit&curid=101404&diff=1175351&oldid=1175350. I'm not quite sure how to identify the dialogue are race-specific or faction-specific. This is the second time I've made such a poor edit. Well, my question is that where can I find these race-specific dialogue on our pages? Dreamshadow (talk) 15:27, 19 April 2013 (GMT)

Hi there! Please don't feel bad—sorting out dialogue in Skyrim is a mess, and it's really tricky sometimes to tell which dialogue goes with which types of NPCs. I've largely been using our CSList tool to check the quotes and their conditions. For example, this one has the FemaleNord and MaleNord voice types on the conditions list, and the value for both is 1; this means if an NPC has either of those voice types, they can say that line. This one, on the other hand, has a 1 for the MaleBandit voice type, so that's something that would go on the Bandit page. I don't think we currently list the race-specific dialogue on our race pages, but it is something we might want to consider doing as we sort through it all.

Hope that helps! Nice job on the Adoption page, by the way. I'm looking at it right now—you definitely put a ton of work into it! ⇠eshe^talk 15:37, 19 April 2013 (GMT)

Thank you very much~ I've never realized it's so powerful. I used to use it to check the ID of locations and cells. Then add some useful links to them on Console page.

As for the adoption page, this is the first time for me to start a new "public" page. At first, I've collected a lot of dialogue about adopted children. I also added some notes about adoption to the older child page. At last, I decided to adopt the Adoption. Quite a challenging work, especially for me, a Chinese and a new editor. Glad to see you like it. Feel free to make it better and feel easy about the number of my mistakes and omissions. Dreamshadow (talk) 16:06, 19 April 2013 (GMT)

Invitation to join a translating team.

Please help us translate this

Dear Eshe,

You are invited to join a team that will be attempting to translate the unknown language on the Word Wall in the 6th Chapter of the Black Book Waking Dreams, the Word Wall that gives the third word ( D3V ) of the Dragon Aspect shout. There are strange, moving words behind the Dragon Language text on the Wall, written in an unrecognisable language. The Dragon Language part of the Word Wall has already been translated. It is the moving words in the unrecognisable language that this project hopes to translate.

This project will be happening in my sandbox, which is open to collaboration by invited team members. The talk page of the sandbox is open to other contributors as well. I hope to see you get involved in the project. I have hand-picked you because you may have previously been involved in Elder Scrolls language translations in the past on the wiki, particularly if you worked on the Magic Script Alphabet or the Elder Alphabet pages.

Kind regards,
Daric Gaersmith

— Daric✐ 12:28, 23 April 2013 (GMT)

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