Skyrim talk:Ulfric Stormcloak/Archive 1

This is an archive of past Skyrim talk:Ulfric Stormcloak discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Ulfric's Dossier

Should this article make references to the Dossier on Ulfric, that can be found in the Thalmor Embassy? --Pin-Pin-Ire 11:39, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

As the one who wrote the original bit about Ulfric being a Thalmor asset, I say it should. Partly because I hate Ulfric, but also because it's specifically about Ulfric, and includes information that is accurate, even if it's unflattering. 164.107.239.15 02:04, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

It should probably be mentioned, but not necessarily here. That kind of information is much more appropriate in lore, and even if it were to be mentioned here any mention of it would have to be much less biased than the above user's edit. He'll surely have a lore article that covers this, but that information is entirely irrelevant to the game (no one mentions it, you can't confront Ulfric with the dossier, and it and is only mentioned in the dossier). --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 02:10, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

To be perfectly honest, the post was meant more as a gag, and I never expected it to last long in its current form. I just got excited when I found the Dossier and wanted to be the first to post something for a change. But as long as the information is recognized on UESP, whether here or in the Lore, I'll be satisfied. 164.107.207.60 03:53, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Read the dossier again, Ulfric is not a Thalmor asset. Some reading comprehension is needed to fully understand the game. — Unsigned comment by 80.103.178.191 (talk) at 21:38 on December 15, 2011

To clarify, an "asset" to the Thalmor is a stooge; anyone who can be manipulated into unwittingly achieving a Thalmor goal. They were able to play Ulfric twice to get exactly the outcomes they wanted, but after the second go-round (Markarth) he wised up and became "generally uncooperative" as they put it. His dossier makes more sense if you read "The Bear of Markarth" first. — Unsigned comment by 206.76.160.254 (talk) at 00:54 on January 7, 2012

(←) Just because something is in a book doesn't make it irrelevant. The dossier is in the game, it is very much relevant. --Kotekzot 07:52, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

The Bear of Markarth is inaccurate, as it's claims are disproven by Jarl Igmund, who was part of the events that actually happened. The book is pro-Reach propoganda, and is sometimes echoed by other characters who weren't actually there (like the smith in Riverwood, who agrees with the Empire). Lobsel Vith 14:35, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

On the other hand, some of the brutal events mentioned in the Bear of Markarth are confirmed during the Forsworn Conspiracy/Escape from Cidhna mine quest. Granted, we can't treat the entire book as fact, but neither is it all lies and propaganda either.--Tovenam 15:36, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Actually, the Jarl is blamed during that quest, not Ulfric, so my point stands that it's nothing but propaganda. Simply because bad things happened to the Reachmen doesn't mean that the Bear of Markarth is accurate. The book is incorrect about the Empire, about Ulfric, and in its treatment of the Reachmen as the "noble savages" of the Reach. Lobsel Vith 12:37, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Bracers and outfit

Ulfric's outfit does not display the same as the one he is wearing when equipped. His bracers do not display correctly at all. — Unsigned comment by 66.142.140.104 (talk) at 14:03 on January 21, 2012

If you are trying to make a bug report, please be a little more descriptive than that. As well, sign your comments so we know who you are and when this was posted.
The way it is now, your commentary is more appropriate for the forums.

Please remember that talk pages are meant for discussing the contents of the article, or for asking specific questions.
If you want to chat with other users about Ulfric Stormcloak, please consider using the UESP forums instead. Rhoan 21:16, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Moved from article

• Ulfric seems to befriend Scouts-Many-Marshes, as stated by a relationship between them found in Skyrim's files.

Is this really relevant? Verification issues aside, if it doesn't actually appear in the game, is it really worth mentioning? ThuumofReason 18:12, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

There are a lot of things in the game files that do not get into the game. they never meet and the stormcloaks are a bit racist, so how would this work in-game. imo it should stay off. The Silencer has spoken 18:17, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

I don't think so either. A quick check also shows that Scouts-M-M isn't fond of Stormcloaks: "It's a new day in Windhelm. The Stormcloaks are gone, and so is their prejudice", among other phrases showing a dislike of Nords. It isn't reflected at all. Vely^{►Talk►Email} 18:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Racism exists among all the groups, it's not limited to some of the Stormcloaks. Even some of the Dunmer in the Gray Quarter display racist attitudes. The proprietor in Falkreath is actually tolerant of non-Nords because he met many of them during his time as a Stormcloak, in comparison to his bigoted brother who has open disdain for non-Nords, particularly Argonians. Lobsel Vith 18:46, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

The additions being made about Ulfric's prejudicial tendencies are probably best left out for several reasons:

• When an article contradicts its own claims within the same sentence, it makes the whole thing look sloppy. The point of that section was to discuss the sentiment that Ulfric is prejudiced, so claims to the contrary make the entire section pointless.
• The "for their own safety" excuse isn't really worth mentioning as a counterpoint; it's a direct result of Ulfric being prejudiced and his admirers following suit. Similarly, where specifically does it say that the Dark Elf refugees had only been living in the slums of the city since before Ulfric was born? They stayed in Windhelm, sure, because it was the closest major city to Vvardenfell, but do we know it was only in the Gray Quarter?
• If the Dark Elves had truly been residing in the slums since before Ulfric's birth, that would probably be better suited to a lore page about the Dark Elves in Skyrim or Windhelm or something, not pages about Ulfric himself. ThuumofReason 18:57, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

The big problem is basically that what you added comes across as an opinion on the matter rather than objective facts, which is what the article is for. ThuumofReason 19:00, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

(←) I'm not trying to be disrespectful here. I simply don't think the opinions of other characters should be treated as fact.

• How is Ulfric genuinely racist if he never says anything that can be construed as racist? Addressing what other characters think of him doesn't make it factually accurate.
• It's a counterpoint because Legion-controlled Windhelm operates the same way as the Stormcloak controlled Windhelm does; the Argonians aren't permitted into Windhelm because it would be too dangerous for them, and resources can't be allocated for the Dunmer in the Gray Quarter because resources are required elsewhere. Ulfric doesn't even want resources allocated for the Jagged Crown, even though it can sway the Jarls in his favor.
• It's addressed numerous times that the Dunmer moved to Windhelm after Red Mountain erupted, so I don't see how this is even up for debate. Unless you are arguing that Ulfric is centuries old, I don't see how he could have been responsible for the Dunmer moving into the Snow Quarter.

It's a matter of opinion that Ulfric is racist. Ulfric doesn't explicitly say anything that would mark him as racist. Galmar is actually the character who makes comments about the race of the protagonist, as well as viewing Skyrim as the land of "men" according to "history." In contrast to Galmar, Ulfric doesn't seem to care. Putting forth the opinions of some characters as "fact" seems sloppy to me. Lobsel Vith 19:13, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree, Ulfric displays no behaviour or says anything that may be interpreted as racist. It is all the word of what other people say. Sort of like back in High School and a certain girl is known as the school slut, but has not displayed any of that behaviour, in fact, it is all just heresay, as if you ask anyone how they know that, they would tell you someone else told them. --86.25.223.142 15:49, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Actions speak louder than words. Even though Ulfric doesn't specifically say these things himself, his actions as described by other characters seem to indicate tendencies towards prejudice. We can't just assume that all these characters are flat-out lying about Ulfric. The article is fine as it is. ThuumofReason 16:26, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

The article says that other NPCs say such things about him, not that he definitely is racist, so I see no issue with it. We've got what NPCs say about certain people on other pages, so it's not unusual. Vely^{►Talk►Email} 16:32, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Level

Since NPCs levels are generated when you first meet them and do not change, and you meet Ulfric in Helgen, wouldn't his level always be 1? Since it is impossible to meet him later. (Ghilz 20:07, 12 July 2012 (UTC))

He is leveled in such a way that he levels when you do. He also dissappears and reappears after helgen providing an opportunity to reset him. The Silencer speaks^Talk 20:12, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

way of the thu'um not just for nords

While it is true that in game Ulfric does say that nay dedicated Nord can learn the Way of the Voice, the Greybeards don't give a tinker's cuss if the Dragonborn is, well, anything. They meet an Altmer with the same aplomb that they do a Nord or Imperial. They say that anyone, at all, can learn if they are willing to train. Ulfric, like many others seems to think that the Voice is a tool only meant for his brand of "true Nord." — Unsigned comment by Honney Boy (talk • contribs) at 22:00 on 17 July 2012

All races are capable of learning the Way of the Voice.

i belief the statement Ulfric gained the ability to use The Voice by training with the Greybeards, as any dedicated Nord in Skyrim can do on the main page here requires quotation marks for Ulfric's specific racist qualification as they do not actually reflect the nature of the thu'um, only his Nord-superior view point of it.

Paarthurnax him self does not even make distinctions between the different races of men, identifying Elf, Man, Khajiit and Argonian.

Ulfric had learned his shouting when he been chosen to be the next Greybeard but he renounced that great Nord honor and tradition to go kill people instead — Unsigned comment by 66.8.149.104 (talk) at 07:29 on 19 July 2012

I'm unsure about it. Indeed, Ulfric is the only one to state that only Nords can learn the Voice, but on the other hand, the Greybeards are obviously all Nords, too, and the only people really knowledgeable about it are Nords. It may not be true, but popular culture and poor knowledge on the subject makes people think so. Elakyn 10:09, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

All we know for sure is that they are "elders" and they don't see a need to comment no matter what shows up on the doorstep calling itself dragonborn. That and the fact that the only school for shouting is in Skyrim may create a false image. — Unsigned comment by 98.150.141.120 (talk) at 11:30 on 25 July 2012

By the quote given by opening poster, Ulfric did _not_ say only Nords, he said "any dedicated Nord." This does not logically express that Nords were even exclusive in the example. "Any Nord in Skyrim" does not mean the same as "Only Nords in Skyrim." An argument can be made that he's implying that Nords only can use it, but that argument would be very, very weak indeed. --DaedalusMachina 11:26, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

(←) He may just be implying that only Nords have the determination to stick with learning the Voice. He clearly has a strong dislike of the Imperials (because of how they surrendered to the Aldmeri Dominion) and any sort of Elf. How he feels toward the other races isn't exactly clear, but we can probably assume that he doesn't think very highly of them. Felindre 17:10, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

People seem to think Ulfric is racist simply because some characters view him that way, even though he doesn't explicitly say anything racist. In fact, Ulfric doesn't care what race the protagonist is, while Galmar will ask why a non-Nord would want to fight for Skyrim. Ulfric will also call a non-Nord a "true son of Skyrim" if he (or she) supports independence for Skyrim. Lobsel Vith 12:45, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

As this conversation has entirely gotten away from helping the wiki, any further discussion relating to this should be moved to the forums. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 16:28, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Ulfric's Gag

I just completed the Battle for Windhelm and killed Ulfric, but didn't find "Ulfric's Gag" in his inventory. Is it actually an item that can be acquired and equipped? If so, any thoughts on why I didn't find it? If not, it seems like a note of explanation on this page would be appropriate. Thanks. username12345 14:13, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

The item is not marked as playable, and therefore can't be used. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 14:31, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

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