Skyrim talk:Races

Falmer

Falmer have been confirmed ("twisted, evil creatures that dwell in Skyrim’s deepest reaches") as a non-playable race. They look like blue vampires, apparently. I think there was a scan from a magazine with an image of them, and lots of people have reported encountering them in demos. Should we assume that they will be NPCs and create the race page? --Legoless 21:59, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

AFAIK, they're not going to be a playable race, so I don't think we'll have a standard race page for them. We'll probably end up having a section at the bottom of the Races page listing the non-playable races, but I think the page describing them will be more like Oblivion:Dremora. --Nephele^Talk 22:04, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Height

Known yet whether height differs between the races  ? I've tried to ascertain this but it is difficult on Xbox360 when judging purely by in-game graphics, any PC player can check this via the console in some way ? From what i can see, it seems that if a height difference is there, it is very subtle, nowhere near the vast difference between say an Altmer and Bosmer that was the case in Oblivion. Gurney 17:37, 17 November 2011‎

Well, I know my Breton is as tall as all the High Elves I've encountered so far, so that has to count for something, even if it's not any real statistics. Gideon Dragontongue 14:46, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

From what I've seen, there is a slight height difference between some races and between genders within some races. For example, Breton females are still shorter than Breton males. --Chill02 06:23, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Orcs are taller than Dunmer in Skyrim [1]

71.237.164.45 02:13, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Apparently scale has a hidden effect on stats: [2]

Not pleased about this but apparently it's how it works. --Evil4Zerggin 03:56, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

I tested it on the PC version and height is directly proportional to movement speed and attack strength. You can find the height values of each race using the getscale command on the PC. There should probably be a category in the race table just for height, since it's pretty important. --96.54.134.65 07:23, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Would prefer some more thorough testing before anything is added. The linked thread is rather slapdash. Plus while changing the scale command in game does have an obvious effect at least on running and jumping, it is not yet proven that the scale of races when they are initially rolled makes a difference. As there may well be other modifiers that are changed to counter it. After all this is a lingering glitch from the morrowind engine rather than an intentional function. If they did want all races balanced, perhaps adding modifiers on character creation was easier than fixing the scale command..? JimmyDeSouza 00:39, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

I also tested it using the showracemenu command to change race on PC, and then running across the Windhelm bridge: High Elves take 23 seconds to cross it. Female Bretons take 26 seconds. So yes, it does affect default races. This is not just a side-effect of the setscale command, it's a game mechanic. --96.54.134.65 07:55, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Notice that you didnt assuage my problem with the comparison. You changed the race in game with the console. Read my post again "perhaps adding modifiers on character creation was easier than fixing the scale command" Which would entail creating a few new characters and testing, which I suppose I may as well do myself. Probably wont change the result but would like to make sure. JimmyDeSouza 08:06, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

(←) I had observed in play that my (taller than a Nord) female Orc character moves more quickly while sneaking than my (shorter than a Nord) Imperial female lightly-amroured mage. I wonder if a race's male characters move faster than the females as well. — Unsigned comment by Cordate (talk • contribs) at 03:05 on 7 December 2011

Didn't notice there was already a section discussing this so I'll add what I posted and remove the section I added. Original thread claiming height affects damage; [3] Note when numbers are given for racial differences the words used "If we assume the same scale influence applies to damage output (and we should)". And actual testing done can be seen here; [4] Kai Heilos 00:32, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

I think some distinction needs to be made between scale and height here before people make any more erroneous conclusions. Height is different than scale, the scale of a character affects X, Y, and Z dimensions of that character, the height of a character affects only the Y scale. Warrior7 16:05, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I do find differences in speed&sprint distance from characters with different height when I'm playing. It's actually quite obvious when you're dashing...But no observable difference in melee damage actually...but again it's hard to tell...

Somebody already mentioned this above, default height does not affect things the same way as typing setplayerscale...the latter is simply magnify every thing rather than just height......if there's a console command like "setplayerheight" or so then this issue could be settled, I'll try if it work soon. But I can't help wondering: does height affect melee reach range?? because obviously there is reach range factors in the game, we could see it clearly by using different weapons. Since "setscale" affect the reach, could height do as well??

BlackTheAltmerMage 22:47, 22 March 2013

Deliberate necropost: Just to answer the question about speed vs. race, I just created two real characters, an Altmer female and a Breton female, and got the exact same speed results as the 96.* IP address above. We can therefore say conclusively that the player's movement speed is affected by their height. And as for height, that's harder to tell with real characters, but using the console SetRace command, there was a clear difference in height when changing races. I stood up against the Windhelm door and changed race a few times, and my viewpoint on the door changed. As secondary confirmation, this was extensively tested in Oblivion years ago, and it worked the exact same way then. While they've added a lot to races in Skyrim, they obviously haven't changed the basic underlying mechanics. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 03:45, 21 October 2014 (GMT)

Yet another necropost: I've seen some dispute and arguments recently as to whether this movement speed difference exists, owing to information found on a different wiki. I just made a video demonstrating the difference in running across the Windhelm bridge as mentioned above: [5] Video is from the newly-released Nintendo Switch version, so hopefully this shows that even in new versions coming out, even on consoles, this hidden stat exists and makes a difference. 99.65.186.242 16:45, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

I did a simple test involving the creation of an Altmer male and a Breton female. Both characters have 4 unarmed damage and 15 one handed skill by default but they have a major difference in heights by default. I hit Ralof once with my fist and once with the iron war axe at separate times on both characters and immediately opened the console to type in the command "getav health" after clicking on Ralof. The starting health 171 decreased by the same amount for both characters in both a single punch (167.43) and a single axe swing (163.32). This test can be replicated by anyone on PC within minutes of character creation, so I would advice removing the citation of a deleted forum thread and use actual evidence as I just provided. This debunks the bonus damage myth for race height, however Altmer as shown above in the video are still without a doubt the fastest race. ~anon — Unsigned comment by 68.175.131.82 (talk) at 01:19 on 3 November 2020 (UTC)

No need to reply to years-old discussions, there is a more recent section below. Also, you could just have written "That link is dead". I've replaced it by an internet archive link. It's nice to have someone else confirm the results (as you did the same kind of test as the other person), but a reference link should still be there, not just for the data, but also for the context on how the rumor started and why it is false. --Ethruvisil (talk) 03:00, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

(←) Point taken and thanks for fixing it although the test in the "archived post" was less thorough, deviated from standard game play (he spawned in a daedric warhammer), and it's not even the original post considering it is a quote of another post of another thread. That aside, I would like to mention one thing of interest mentioned above regarding melee weapon reach, as an Altmer, you begin the game with the fury spell, therefore you can cast it on Ralof to attack you right away. From extensive fighting with Ralof mainly to grind out a few skills early on, we would both swing at each other from a certain range and it was evident that I was able to hit him while he could not hit me. That strongly supports the theory that racial height still affects melee range despite being confirmed to not affect melee damage. The exact quantity from this test is unknown, though plausibly proportional to the ratio. — Unsigned comment by 68.175.131.82 (talk) at 04:32 on 3 November 2020‎ (UTC)

(ADDITIONAL EDIT: further testing using the Breton female vs the Altmer male virtually dissolves the supposition of melee range, as it was rather self evident that the Breton female wasn't able to hit Ralof whereas Ralof could hit her, the opposite was the case for the aforementioned Altmer male. For clarification all characters are using the Iron War Axe with no modifiers of any kind, standing still while attacking, and Ralof is obviously a Nord. Feel free to try it out if you doubt it. Altmer have extended melee range and movement speed and no increased melee damage for the min-maxers) ~anon — Unsigned comment by 68.175.131.82 (talk) at 17:18 on 3 November 2020‎ (UTC)

Race Resists as Console ID

Has anyone found any console IDs for the race traits? I have been able to change my Bosmer to Breton via ActorValues (setav magicresist 25, setav poison/diseaseresist 0), but would like to actually have the Race Traits in the Active Magic Effects so that it looks better superficially. Any thoughts on how I could find them out? I have tried using the console and clicking on the spell in the "Magic" area, but nothing there is selected. Thanks UPDATE: Using "setav poisonresist 0" or "setav disease resist 0" does NOT lower either resist. One has to set it at -50 (for Bosmer) for it to take effect.Rayce Kaiser 17:15, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

I accidentally used resurrect on myself when in third person :/. Screwed up all my perks and effects. I found the id for bosmer blood using the help command: 000AA025. You can probably find the others, they need to be added to Skyrim:Powers under abilities.

Npc Interaction difference?

I understand its a little early for some sort of list but this statement has been made on this article with no example. Personally I have yet to hear or experience any differce in NPC interaction or comment about my characters race. Tonight, even, my Breton spoke to a Breton NPC in Markarth who was going on abiut how he is 'Breton and that Daggerfall is like such and such" as if my character wouldn't no. I bet he even says such racist things if your character is a nord. — Unsigned comment by 86.182.160.193 (talk) at 06:16 on 20 November 2011‎

As a Bosmer, I have met several other Bosmers who say that "It's great to see a familiar face." I've had several NPCs blame me for the White Concordant as well. Rayce Kaiser 07:46, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Using the "real" name of the races

all of the Elfs use their real name and then their other namde Dummer, dark elf, but orc dose not, should this be changed? — Unsigned comment by Wolfy (talk • contribs) on 21 November 2011

No, it does not need to be changed. Redirects exist for all variations of the names, and the existing naming structure is the same one that is used throughout UESP. As for what name to use for Orcs, it has been discussed to death, for example at Lore_talk:Orc. --Nephele^Talk 06:44, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

"the player's race has no effect on initial attributes...

...(since those attributes do not exist in Skyrim)". Magicka, Health and Stamina are Attributes - UESP even categorizes them as such. So Altmer's 50 Magicka bonus counts as a different initial attribute. 178.183.247.238 06:43, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

The Altmer's passive is not an increase to the base attribute. You'll notice that an altmer's magicka score is always listed in green rather that white. Base attribute values aren't affected by any race. Even though altmer do get a passive that increases one, the game essentially treats passive effects as temporary effects with infinite duration. Mechanically, I don't think this distinction matters for magicka. I know that stamina's affect on carry weight is only improved by base stamina score, but I don't think there will be any difference for magicka. --SushiSquid 11:12, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

the statement is misleading and technically false, can it be removed please? 50.99.131.84 05:09, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

It's neither. The statement is about initial attributes, which are the same across the board. The magicka bonus for Altmer is an effect, like Argonian water-breathing and Bosmer resistance to disease and poison. • JA^Talk 05:31, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

how are people arguing this. If someone reads "race has no effects on initial attributes" people would expect races to have same magicka/health/stamina, but it's not true. Who cares HOW the attribute is raised, it doesn't matter.

(←) All races start with 100 magicka, 100 health, and 100 stamina. Altmer have a passive affect that grants them 50 ADDED magicka, hence why the score is always shown in green. Its not a hard concept to understand, if Altmer had 50 more magicka inherently, it would be white, but because they get it from what is basically a free buff, for those of you who don't know what those are shame on you, it is not. — Unsigned comment by 98.218.162.126 (talk) at 07:48 on 10 August 2012

Skyrim:Demographics

Could someone make a skyrim:demographics page? I have the rough procentages of the racial makeup: atmer5%, argon2%, Bosmer3%, Brteon12%, dunmer7%, imperial 11%, kahj3%, nord49%, orc7%, redgu5%. just google "how to make a pie chart" and insert these numbers. I'd upload it myslef but i dont know how to. — Unsigned comment by 217.211.170.204 (talk) at 00:43 on 4 December 2011

Weight?

I don't see much difference between a fully-buffed Altmer and a fully-buffed Orc. And why are only males 0.5 weight for Khajiits and Argonians? Does it have any actual use? — Unsigned comment by 82.243.194.53 (talk) on 10 December 2011‎

I have heard that it effects knock back and stagger, but I haven't seen any testing done. Kai Heilos 18:15, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Since the numbers get constantly changed, a clarification where the numbers come from and what their impact is might be good. Using the console command "player.getAVinfo Mass" I get 1.00 for both male and female Khajiit (Helgen, shortly after creation) and 1.50 for Breton transformed to Werewolf (later in game obviously, 1.00 untransformed). But apparently that value wasn't used here. Is the value given here related to the body/weight parameter you can choose in the beginning, and if yes has it a meaning beyond looks? --Alfwyn 15:13, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I've heard players reporting that high elves are not twice as susceptible to staggering, or any more so at all. If weight does have some effect on game play, we need to find out what it is and mention it. If it doesn't have an effect, I don't think there's any point in listing it here. It would only be confusing. --SushiSquid 17:16, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I pulled the numbers out of the game data when I was adding the heights. It's possible that I'm making an incorrect guess about what those values are (although everything else in the RACE DATA field appears be unchanged from Oblivion, so of the thousands of data-format guesses I've made, it seems like one of the less risky guesses). Or it's possible that the weight isn't used in gameplay. If the numbers are irrelevant, they should be removed. Or if they need to be revised, I'd just like to see some explanation -- so far it's just been an anonymous editor flipping numbers around without providing any justification. --Nephele^Talk 17:32, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

(←) I moved the values to the notes. Unlike Oblivion where the values are near 1, Skyrim weight values don't lend themselves to any naive interpretation. That is, it's unlikely that two Aldmer weigh as much as a Bosmer. It looks like that for Oblivion the only impact was how the character looked like. Anyway, I think that values and flags about races should be documented, even if we don't understand their meaning right now. Perhaps Tes5od would be the right namespace for such things? --Alfwyn 15:08, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

What if it affects aspects such as sneaking and fall damage? It only makes sense that someone who weighs less will make less noise and will take a different amount of damage when falling the same distance as someone who is heavier... But I'm on the 360 so I have no way to try it out other than making boatloads of characters, which I don't want to do. So, try looking in Sneak, Fall Damage, and perhaps speed or the amount of Stamina that is used per action. An easy assessment should be between the Male Khajiit and the Female Argonian. The reason is because both of them have a respective height value of 1, but their weight is differing by 0.5, with the MK weighing 1 and the FA weighing 0.5. This will give the same movement speed and possibly staggering affects as well as damage value (All obtained via height), but with the difference of weight the FA should (In theory) sneak better (With the same skill level, perks, stamina, and inventory of course), take less damage when falling the same distance, and possibly use less Stamina during, say, a five second sprint or perhaps after blocking a relatively constant attack, such as a Dragon's bite or the stomp of a Giant... Just food for thought. 15:41 15th of December, 2011 (CST)

If I were to hazard a guess, I'd posit that it has something to do with the Weight slider during character creation. Initial value, perhaps? Or maybe it adjusts it so altmer and male beasts always look a bit thinner?166.182.3.156 02:56, 16 December 2011

I've notice that my Altmer was pushed or projected further in the air during a power attack or a shout than my Redguard with same stats, armor, and level. I know people who observed the same thing too but maybe it's just hallucination! — Unsigned comment by 65.92.82.98 (talk)

(UTC): I'm pretty sure it's just your hallucination! When I read the High Elf page I was quite concerned about the weight comment, so I tested it personally. I wanted to make a High Elf Swordmage and extra stagger just wouldn't do; I had to test it. I tested it against several races. I used a sword and shield with the Orc, the High Elf, and the Breton. I battled Hadvar for about 10mins with each. There was absolutely no observable difference in the stagger time. The Orc and High Elf both appear to stagger more because they are larger. I have concluded after observing the male High Elf, Khajiit, etc., that the only reason there is a weight factor is for aesthetics. Imagine if the High Elf had full male weight; he would be a hulking beast of golden muscle, and this would just not fit the High Elf aesthetic. The same is true for the Khajiit; a male Khajiit would look too muscular for a thief type. Please remove the erroneous data that you have posted; at least until someone else can verify what I have tested. The comments about the height are true. The High Elf moved conspicuously faster than the Breton. However, I didn't observe any difference in damage dealt by a taller character. Perhaps a strong weapon would magnify the difference, if there is one that is. However, I couldn't see it in battling Hadvar. — Unsigned comment by 69.248.237.209 (talk)

I believe the above is correct. It doesn't look like weight affects anything other than the magnitude of the Weight slider during the character creation process, and I think that height just gives you a slight speed boost in exchange for a taller hitbox. I admit that it's hard to test the hitbox theory since you're at the mercy of the AI though.

It's been a while that the game is out and I've tried a lot layout with many races and I can tell that the weight matter more at higher level than lower level, mainly because the weapons and enemies don't hit too hard, but later it's not the same thing! I've noticed that my High Elf warrior was more susceptible to be stunned or thrown away with a big hit like those from two-handed weapons compare to my Nord warrior for exemple (Heavy Armor and Block skill at 100 for both characters). So in a way weight matter in this game but not as huge factor of course but enough to make things different at higher level. — Unsigned comment by 174.95.248.242 (talk)

I plan to remove the weight values mentioned on the individual race pages. Without explanation they are pure non-sense since the meaning doesn't match the meaning usually given to it in the English language (a Nord doesn't weigh the same as two High Elves). At this point any theory about what the value supposedly does, can be attributed to other values associated with races too. If we find out what the value does, and it is still important enough to display prominently, we can re-add them with an explanation. --Alfwyn (talk) 14:06, 16 October 2012 (GMT)

Reviving this old discussion, I've wondered if weight affects the width of the hitbox. Certainly it doesn't seem to have any really noticeable effects on gameplay, although a max weight and min weight PC which otherwise have the same appearance settings do look quite a bit different. --Morrolan (talk) 20:50, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

I think the weight might affect how easily you can move corpses of specific races by carrying them. While I often have some trouble with corpses appearing to be heavy and difficult to drag around (I have my reasons.), I noticed today that the corpses of roughly a dozen Northwatch Altmer all appeared to be light and therefor easy to carry around. Can anyone confirm this? ~ Bla

Invisible Race?

someone care to explain what this race is? Kremlin16 19:51, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

You may want to elaborate on what exactly you are asking.--Liudeius 20:07, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Someone has already removed it. There was a note under NPCs stating 'an "invisitble" race'. Kai Heilos 08:25, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Children

It's worth including Children in the 'Other Races category, isn't it? 70.225.177.54 02:31, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

"Child" is a class, not a race. Check the Classes page. ES^{Question?•Email•Contribs} 02:38, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Uh... right, but there are actually individual races for Breton, Imperial, Nord, and Redguard children. They do seem to be treated as NPCs by game mechanics. In fact, now that I've been working on modifying this game, I don't think Skyrim's engine actually has a distinction between NPCs and creatures like past games did. There doesn't even seem to be a record type for creatures. Everything is just defined as an NPC. There is still a distinction between white and black souls, which was traditionally handled by the NPC vs creature distinction, but that may be done another way now. We'll know more when the Creation Kit is available.--SushiSquid 03:08, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Looking into this further, I'm now certain that there is no distinction between creatures and NPCs as there was in past games. All four child races do have the ActorTypeNPC keyword, so they need to be listed on this page. I've added them. They are just as worthy of being listed here as Old People Race and Dremora, so please only remove them if you can present a valid reason for doing so. I can't provide any links for them yet because no pages exist, but they do belong here.--SushiSquid 22:11, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Where does the notion that "Nord Child" is a race come from? Looking at the FULL fields of RACE forms, I cannot find the string "Child" at all. There is a RACE with EDID NordRaceChild, but the correct name for it is still "Nord" it seems. --Alfwyn 14:15, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

That's a good point. They are technically a different race, but so are vampires. I suppose whether to list them separately or not is a matter for debate still. I wouldn't mind leaving them on the page, but I can certainly see why you'd want them removed if they share the same name. Invisible Race should really be listed here again, though. It has the ActorTypeNPC keyword and a unique name.--18:15, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Had a serious WTF moment when I saw children and elders listed here. They have their own race for the sake of convenience in the CS, they can't be *actually* considered a different race in the game world. Astrid has a custom race too, but that doesn't mean Astrid Nord should be listed here, for crying out loud. That stuff belongs on some miscellaneous game mechanics page, at best. Weroj 16:56, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

While including children as a race is definitely debatable, including Elder is not. It's pretty clear that it is a race, whether it makes sense or not. elliot (talk) 06:59, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Redguards are not 'Human'

In the chart at the top, Redguards are sorted under the 'Human' category. In their lore page it states, "Redguards do not share the same blood as the other human races, and they have no connection with the ancestral Nordic homeland of Atmora." Admittedly, I wouldn't know how to categorize them otherwise, but I thought I'd point it out. EDIT: I just had a thought, maybe 'Human' could be changed to 'Man'. Sounds good to me. MetalJoe 15:19, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Man is just a shorter version of Human, though they technically mean the same Human just looks better next to Mer. --kiz ^talk_email 15:29, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Thoughts on Height

If you read the lore... it states that most races are of average height. Generally speaking and Skyrim is dealing with generalities when it comes to race height, the average height is approximately 5'9". Which is similar to the real world. Human height That being said, Bethesda's programmers use values which are a ratio to a standard benchmark. If conventional wisdom holds any merit, we should start with the races of average height then add or subtract an inch (for some even add an extra 1/2 inch) to the other races height.

Altmer (both genders) - 6'8"

Argonian Male - 5'10"

Argonian Female- 5'9"

Bosmer Male - 5'7

Bosmer Female - 5'8"

Breton Male - 5'9"

Breton Female - 5'4"

Dunmer (both genders) - 5'9"

Imperial (both genders)- 6'0"

Khajiit Male - 5'9"

Khajiit Female - 5'4"

Nord (both genders)- 6'0"

Orc (both genders) - 6'1"1/2

Redguard Male - 5'9"1/2

Redguard Female - 5'9"

There are always exceptions to the rule mind you. Example, General Tulius is an Imperial but he's no taller than the average female Bosmer (give or take). Lastly also take into account that height occasionally glitches when using certain races.

I've moved the preceding paragraph from the article. I'm not sure real world comparisons should be on the article and it is a bit speculative in nature. --Alfwyn (talk) 15:22, 5 February 2013 (GMT)

Looks like nonsense. I agree with the move. —Legoless (talk) 15:58, 5 February 2013 (GMT)

The values presented here seem arbitrarily assigned. If conventional wisdom was used, the in-game height of 1.0 is 5'9 then. 5'9 is 69 inches. If the Altmer height of 1.08 was taken for reference, it would be 69 x 1.08 = 74.52 inches. An Altmer of any gender would be the real world equivalent of 6'3 (6'2.52 if were precise), not 6'8 (80 inches). Another example would be 5'4 is 64 inches. 64 / 69 = 0.93 as opposed to 0.95. 0.95 x 69 = 65.55 inches which is 5'6 (5'5.55 if were precise). Either way it is undoubtedly wrong however you "calculated" it. ~anon — Unsigned comment by 68.175.131.82 (talk) at 02:12 on 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Movement speed multiplier

The movement speed of each race is dependent on its height. High Elves have the largest speed multiplier due to being the tallest race, with Orcs being second tallest.

Does this mean that the height multiplier for each race/gender is also the speed multiplier? If so, it should be stated explicitly in the article. --Xyzzy ^Talk 22:47, 19 June 2013 (GMT)

Reachmen

Reachmen seem to be a distinct race in Skyrim. Obviously they're not a playable race, but there are several NPCs who define themselves as Reachmen, including some who aren't Forsworn. Shouldn't they have a page and a listing here on this page? --Morrolan (talk) 20:26, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

Races in this article refers to races used in game data, not races in dialogue/lore. — ABCface^◥ 20:28, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

So the game data defines all Reachmen, including Forsworn, as Bretons then? If yes then I'll move this discussion to the Breton page. --Morrolan (talk) 20:43, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

All NPC pages have had their race information added directly from game data, and it is correct, whether it lists them as Bretons or otherwise. As for different types of Forsworn, who don't have individual NPC Summary infoboxes on their page, all are Breton in game data. — ABCface^◥ 20:53, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

Base regeneration of attributes

I would be appreciated if base regeneration of attributes was mentioned. — Unsigned comment by 86.74.187.143 (talk) at 17:38 on 5 February 2014

Survival

There probably shouldn't be any mentions of Survival Mode on this page as an official mod is still a mod. It's not a full DLC or expansion. Any information about Survival Mode belongs on its dedicated page. 31.24.13.64 17:52, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Because you want to be technical about it, all DLC and patches are mods, because mod stands for modification to the game, and these all modify the original release of the game. With this knowledge you might better understand that any officially endorsed mod is one that we will cover in depth on any affected page. Additional to that we even have sections of the wiki dedicated to unofficial mods, because we are the most in-depth Elder Scrolls website out there and prefer to provide information where relevant, than try to "contain" it where only those that know about it can find it. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 19:53, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

I wasn't being technical, if anything you are by saying that technically "mods" is short for "modifications" so add-ons are mods too when you know that's not the point. And please don't condescend to me like I'm stupid, my message was not meant to be an attack. Having sections dedicated to unofficial mods is great and I very much agree that UESP is *the* TES website, but both those things are again irrelevant to the topic at hand. The crucial difference between an add-on and what I called an "official mod" is that official mods, like user-created mods on something like nexus, are very obviously "pick and choose" optional content as opposed to add-ons where the intent is that one should have all of them as they extend the main game, hence the existence of things like the legendary edition. I propose that official mods should, much like unofficial ones have been, remain clearly seperate from core game content by being limited to either their own pages or footnotes like the unofficial patch often is. In this case a small link somewhere on the page like "for information on races in relation to official mods see their respective pages" would be enough to solve the problem of that information becoming too hard to find. Possibly the biggest danger for wiki-style sites of widely modded games is to gradually devolve into a mix of core and mod content until eventually nothing makes sense anymore. Blurring the lines between core content and "pick and choose" style mods (even officially endorsed ones) is a risky first step down that road. 31.24.13.64 19:44, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

The only difference there has ever been has been between official and unofficial. The wiki has always taken the stance that all effects by official mods be documented on those pages, and there is not going to be a change now. Even Fall of the Space Core is documented on the pages it affects, outside its own. There is no difference between an "add-on" and an "official mod" here, they are the same thing. Your protestations don't even make much sense, the changes are clearly marked to see. If you are so desperate to see a demarcation between add-ons and Creation Club content (officially named Creations), then take it to the Community Portal and try to change the wiki's stance on this matter, but as of right now, the information stays in line with our current policy and treatment of the subject. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 20:17, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Even if the wiki's policies don't make a distinction between the two, there is still an undeniable difference between "add-on" and "creation", if there wasn't Bethesda would've never made up that new term. As far as policy goes I haven't seen anything clearly taking a stance in either direction, though I'm not deep into editing so I'm likely unaware of many a (un)spoken rule. Seems to me that because Creations are a novel concept things haven't yet had time to adjust to them, simply ignoring their novelty by pretending they're identical to add-ons probably isn't helping, but fair enough. The picture of wiki policy I have based on how things are handled in practice (i.e. by reading pages) isn't quite in line with the current races page's handling of Survival Mode. Maybe I just don't read the right pages, or maybe it's just because the races page is such a hugely prominent one. Space Core is only mentioned on the Atronach Forge and Specialty Items pages, both of which I don't see a problem with, not that they're comparable seeing as Space Core is classified as a proper add-on as opposed to a Creation. If the current policy is as you say it is, it looks like it's not being implemented very consistently. The many Creations which add Artifacts do not show up on any Artifact pages, not even in external link form, heck even the proper add-ons are featured less prominently than Survival Mode currently is. Survival Mode seems to be the only Creation featured prominently anywhere on any article outside its own or ones directly related to Creations in general, though again maybe I just don't read the right articles. As far as I can tell there is no policy regarding Creations (yet), again likely because they are a novel thing, but I guess I'll just have to take your word for it that there is one. Cheers. 31.24.13.64 22:15, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

(←) Going to have to agree here - there's no reason for mod info to be on pages unrelated to the mod itself. All Survival stuff should stay on the Survival page. 73.158.80.163 22:55, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

Survival is official content, there is no argument. There are just so many wrong statements and arguments in the previous post (from January) it isn't possible to address them all, and they are all based on the incorrect assumption that creations are not official content, making them largely irrelevant anyway. There is also an ongoing fallacy that just because some are getting more attention than others that there is an inconsistent approach to them. Some things just garner a bigger audience which translates directly into more people adding content (and there is only so much you can write about a sword, compared to something that alters the very essence of the way the game must be played). Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 23:45, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

Hey, it's me, the poster from January (I've got an account now). It seems I've made the grave mistake of reading this page again, just to discover that you are now strawmanning me behind my back. Nobody ever said creations weren't official content, but you already knew that. The only relevant difference was between "add-on" and "creation", which is as canonical as it gets since those are the terms Bethesda themselves use. Of course this doesn't have to mean they have to be treated differently, as you've previously explained. As to your second point, making an observation about a seeming inconsistency in the wiki isn't a fallacy. Instead of using it as another opportunity to strawman me, you could've presented your explanation for this apparent inconsistency - namely that it is merely a result of editor interest rather than wiki policy - in the original conversation, but that would've been constructive, which is something you're clearly incapable of being. Your behaviour in this thread has been simply toxic. Wingblade (talk) 08:26, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Height and melee damage

"Melee damage is also affected by height, which is not represented in the status screen."

This was previously discussed but never confirmed. Anyone feel like doing some testing? --Xyzzy ^Talk 18:58, 28 November 2019 (GMT)

I have previously removed a similar note, while citing this forum post as a source, which seems pretty conclusive to me. The last user who added it wrote "confirmed with setscale/Breton Female damage loss" - however, according to the post, the setscale part is simply irrelevant to the issue, and "Breton Female damage loss" seems far too vague to serve as any kind of evidence. Maybe we should add a note on why this recurring rumor is false instead. --Ethruvisil (talk) 02:19, 22 January 2020 (GMT)