Skyrim talk:Enchanting Effects/Archive 1

This is an archive of past Skyrim talk:Enchanting Effects discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Two Enchantment tables?

I'm not sure if I understand why this page exists. All of this information is on the Enchanting page and more up-to-date. --Fluff 07:35, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

I assumed when I saw this page being created that the information was moved, instead of just copied. I've now gone ahead and moved the latest version of the info from Enchanting, so now there is only one version of the information.

I think it makes sense to have this on a separate page. It's large enough to justify it; the Enchanting page is more than large enough without it; it's consistent with SR:Alchemy Effects; it makes it easier to handle the ref tags being used for notes. Since I think the Enchanting page is a more manageable size without these extra tables, I removed it from that page. If, however, other editors disagree, the information must be added back as a transclusion -- in other works, insert {{Skyrim:Enchanting Effects}} onto the enchanting page instead of undoing my edit or copy/pasting the information over. --Nephele^Talk 22:53, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Personally I preferred the information on the Enchanting page, but it's a minor thing. I thought the section discussing what the base magnitude and base uses mean should go on this page. It doesn't make much sense to separate the two onto different pages when comprehension relies on both. --Fluff 23:27, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Perks as Relates to Enchantments?

Would it be a good idea to expand the table on this page, or add another table, outlining which perks affect the strengths of each enchantments?

For instance: it would be nice to know before picking a perk whether or not Insightful Enchanter or Corpus Enchanter would strengthen one's Fortify Restoration. I would think the former might and the latter would most certainly not, but right now the game doesn't make the relationship between perks and whatnot clear. At the same time which perks exactly help with Fortify Resist Poison? I've no clue! — Unsigned comment by 99.49.61.3 (talk) at 21:59 on 14 December 2011

Insightful helps with Fortify Skill, Corpus helps with Fortify Attribute, nothing helps with Resists or other. I think the perks make it rather clear really. Kai Heilos 06:09, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

I was looking for exactly this piece of information for the last 20 minutes. Yes, the perk descriptions don't mention Resists and misc enchants, but there are a lot of "hidden"/non-mentioned bonuses in the game, so adding that fact to the page makes sense to me. --84.72.54.145 13:59, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Are you sure about that Kai? The elemental perks certainly should increase the related Resists. I haven't had a chance to test it yet, but if not then it's a bug that should be noted on the article. Aliana 16:49, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Other Magic Schools

Testing seems to show the following:

Skill in other Magic schools has no effect.
Destruction elemental perks affect elemental weapons, stacking multiplicatively if two elemental enchantments are used.
The Regeneration perk does not affect Fortify Healing Rate.
Illusion perks do not have any effect.

(Clarification: These were based on the displayed values at the enchanting table. --Evil4Zerggin 22:29, 3 December 2011 (UTC))

--Evil4Zerggin 22:54, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

My tests found that while Aspect of Terror has no effect on Fear weapons, Kindred Mage does (a level 20 effect dagger can now fear a level 25 bandit). This does not show in the tooltip, but Kindred Mage never shows its effect in the tooltip anyway. Also, Stability does affect the duration of Paralyze effects. A 5 second paralyze became a 7 second paralyze with Stability (visible in tooltip, and confirmed by testing it on things). Holy weapons (and presumably, all Destruction-based ones) are affected by Necromage. Aetryn 19:42, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, interesting. I wonder if all weapon-based effects count as casting a spell of that school for purposes of perks. --Evil4Zerggin 20:20, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

I wouldn't be too surprised by that. After all, we know that you can get more charges out of a weapon if your normal 'cost to cast' is reduced. For example, using Fortify Conjuration enchants to get 100% cost reduction lets you use any conjuration staff as many times as you want without reducing the number of charges left. --Fluff 20:22, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Does this apply to non-staves as well? --Evil4Zerggin 20:58, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Staves are slightly different than weapon enchants, however, as a Turn Undead staff will stagger an undead target (even if not feared), while a Turn Undead enchanted weapon will not. Staves seem to be just exactly like casting the spell, except the magicka cost is deducted from the staff, whereas weapon enchants are slightly different in the effect they apply (since Rage doesn't have any effect on Fear weapons, for instance). There's few enough weapon enchants that it's probably just easier to figure them out by testing each one. Does anyone have a good method for detecting charge level on a weapon? Is there a console command that does this? Eyeball tests indicate that skill level is not affecting charge cost of the Banish weapon enchant (one of the most expensive, and thus noticeable), but I don't really trust my eyeballs. Aetryn 21:08, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

100 skill confers about a 40% reduction in spell cost relative to 0 skill--I think this difference could be eyeballed if you did such a test. --Evil4Zerggin 21:18, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Ah, good call. I totally forgot about the difference between staves and non-staff enchantments. To experiment, I wore gear that reduced Destruction cost 100% and used an Ebony Sword of the Vampire to go to Movarth's Lair and clear it out. According to the wiki, it should have 12 charges, but it lasted me the whole cave. When I got back out, I found that it had expended zero charges. --Fluff 21:21, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

I can also confirm that 50% Conjuration reduction doubles the uses on a sword of banishment (I had one enchanted that lasted for 12 with no gear, and with two 25% pieces it lasted for 24 uses - tested by spawning a flame atronach in a corner and repeatedly banishing it). Please be aware that tgm (toggle god mode) will reduce all charge uses on enchanted weapons to 0, so it's not safe to test with it on. You can instead use player.setav health 9000 if you don't want to worry about dying while testing. Also, it was 12 uses at Conjuration 35, and at Conjuration 100, it was 16 uses, so there is definitely a reduction for skill level for that particular effect.

Another test: same sword you used for yours, bashing repeatedly spawned Frost Trolls. I got 31 uses at 21 Destruction, and 46 uses at 100 destruction. I think it's safe to posit that the Absorb/Damage weapon enchants are governed by the Destruction skill even though no such Destruction spells currently exist. Any other perks or effects people would like tested? Aetryn 21:28, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Aye, I already changed the effect pages. Originally the 'Absorb' effects were in the Restoration school. Now they've been updated to be in the Destruction school. --Fluff 22:03, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

At least one absorb spell exists: Vampiric Drain, which is an HP drain from the destruction school. --pixelGhost

Is the Destruction skill effect on number of uses reflected on the enchantment screen? IIRC they weren't when I tested. --Evil4Zerggin 22:21, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

No, they're not. I imagine this is intentional since the Fortify Destruction effects are not a permanent part of the enchantment. --Fluff 22:24, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

The number of uses numbers per skill you've posted appear to be roughly consistent with the formula for spells (Skyrim:Magic Overview). --Evil4Zerggin 22:23, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

No, the enchant screen does not show you the actual number of uses you will get - it always shows you the same number regardless of skill level or gear equipped. It doesn't seem to be particularly accurate at any skill level - the sword of Banishing I made myself and used for the test above said it should have 18 uses, but it was only usable 12 times at skill 35 and 16 at skill 100, so it doesn't seem to be even showing skill 100 level. It's probably showing some kind of base value used in the enchant calculation. Aetryn 22:28, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Well that's annoying. Hopefully it's a constant multiplier... what level Enchanting did you use? --Evil4Zerggin 22:35, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Best conjecture I've come up with so far: the enchanting table shows a use cost multiplier of (1 - Enchanting/200), whereas the actual multiplier is the same as for spells, i.e. (1 - (Destruction/400)^0.65). If this conjecture is correct, the number of uses should be as advertised when Enchanting is 0 and Destruction is 0, and should be half as much as advertised when Enchanting is 100 and Destruction is 0. If Enchanting is 199, the advertised number will be ridiculously large. --Evil4Zerggin 22:48, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Level 100 enchanting (but only with the 40% bonus enchant perks), and it might actually be worse. I tried the following: Enchant a sword with 35 Conjuration using a banish enchantment. It says it gets 18 uses. By testing, it takes 18 uses to deplete it. Recharging it, and bumping my conjuration up to 100, I get 24ish uses out if it. Then I tried setting my conjuration to 100 first, THEN doing the enchant. It says it gets 18 uses. By testing, it takes... 18 uses. So either there's something random about enchants (my first test above didn't even go for 18 uses at 35 skill, but I did exit and reload the game in between), or it's actually better to enchant everything, THEN raise your relevant skill. Given that we know enchanting has glitches with values, it may well have other glitches. This seems incredibly wrong though... can anyone confirm this behavior?

Even more weirdness! Going back before I made the sword to try again, I made the sword, then made a separate save. 18 uses at 35 Conjuration, 100 enchant. Reloaded the save, same result. Quit the game, came back and reloaded the SAME save, 12 uses. My best guess? When it's first made, it's somehow based off of your Enchant skill rather than its governing skill. When you load back in after quitting the program, it gets associated back to its governing skill?

Same test, but this time I started at 100 Conjuration and 100 Enchant. This actually results in 18 uses both before and after quitting the game. So what appears to be happening is that the enchant screen is telling you what it will do if you had the same skill level in that casting skill AND it somehow makes it work that way until you clear the cache or whatever quitting the game does. When you come back from that, it recalculates based on your actual spell skill, not your enchant skill. Aetryn 22:53, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

FYI, the absorb effects are indeed destruction effects (with the exception of the Absorb Health effect that's on the Drainblood Battleaxe, which has no school). I'm not sure how I missed that when I was setting up the pages. I was somehow under the impression that all of them had no official school (which is true of dozens of effects), so I arbitrarily put them into Restoration for consistency with previous games. In any case, thanks for finding and fixing that mistake. --Nephele^Talk 23:24, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

(←) This is venturing a bit further from the field, but is there any way to see which effects don't have a school at all on the wiki? I'm guessing that those effects cannot be disenchanted, based on the fact that you can't disenchant a Drainblood Battleaxe. It would also be helpful considering that it appears that weapon enchantment effects can be modified by perks and fortify effects from various schools. For example, without knowing what you just mentioned about the Drainblood Battleaxe, I'd expect the weapon to not expend any change while wearing 100% Destruction cost reduction gear. --Fluff 23:30, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

I can confirm that gear that reduces costs still affects newly enchanted gear. I'd conjecture that the charge amount used being based on your Enchant skill instead of the spell skill, but only until you quit the game and come back, is probably a bug. Exactly which WAY it is a bug is open to debate... Aetryn 23:46, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

I think it would make more sense for the charge consumption to be based on spell skill. First, if we are going to have perks and equipment from spell skills affect weapons, it only makes sense for the skill to do so as well. Second, the Enchanting skill is already increasing the capacity of the weapon, so the reduction in cost from Enchanting is "double-dipping." (This is why the net uses graph, which is computed from Enchanting, looks so funny.) --Evil4Zerggin 00:02, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Silent Moons Enchant

I disenchanted one of the Lunar weapons I found and now know the Silent Moons Enchant. Where in this table should that go, and how do I go about calculating its base benefits for the rest of the table?—Yoda8myhead 22:04, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

It's currently on the table as 'Light Damage'. When the effect page is renamed, it will be changed in the table. --Fluff 22:06, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Question on Enchanting Effects

So, if I have a helmet that causes a 17% reduction in the cost of destruction spells AND I have robes that perform a 12% reduction in the cost of destruction spells, these two reductions are stack able, correct? Just making sure I understand how things work.

Yes they do stack. So the cost of destruction spells would be reduced by 29% in total. --TheBlameThrower 21:09, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

39% you mean. You forgot to carry the one. =p

17 + 12 = 29 Kai Heilos 00:14, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Entertainingly enough, I see exactly what he did wrong. He added 12 to 7 instead of 2 to 7. I don't know what's 'worse', him doing that, or me knowing that's what he did. Maniclurker 19:30, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Question on the Enchanting Formulas

In these two formulas:

Apparel:

net magnitude = base magnitude * soul multiplier * skill multiplier * (1 + Enchanter modifier) * (1 + specific perk modifier)

Weapons:

maximum magnitude = effect's base magnitude * skill multiplier * (1 + Enchanter modifier) * (1 + specific Enchanting perk modifier) * (1 + elemental Destruction perk modifier)

The "Enchanter Modifier" is never defined. Could someone give an example of one? Thanks. --TheBlameThrower 21:22, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

It refers to the Enchanter perk. I'll make this more clear. --Evil4Zerggin 22:43, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Max magnitude?

Would be great if the table also contain the maximum magnitude of an enchantment (with all of the potion/item boosts for crafting). --147.251.215.82 15:02, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

There is no maximum. --Fluff 15:41, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

I assume he means the maximum if one performs the alchemy-enchanting loop, which is not infinite. Such a list would be useful, to plan endgame gear, I suppose.

I'm not sure what you'd assume that. If you're using alchemy to boost your enchanting, you might as well use Fortify Restoration potions to boost your Fortify Enchanting potions into the stratosphere. Using that method, there is no maximum. -Fluff 15:46, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

... except the fort restoration thing is a bug/exploit, and making the best Fortify Alchemy equipment to make the best Fortify Enchanting potions is an intentional optimization technique and not a bug at all. It also has a very real and easily calculated maximum value that would be useful to know.

For instance, the max value for the low-value Fortify Skill enchantments is 25% with all of the Enchanter perks, but without Alchemy potions, and 29% with both max Enchanter perks and max Alchemy potions (which are 32% potions, right?). I'm not exactly sure what the high-value Fortify Skill enchantments can go to with max Alchemy potions, but they are 40% without Alchemy potions, and 44% with a 25% Alchemy potion. I'd guess they'd go to 46% or 47% with a max Alchemy potion. Non-Solitude Resist Magic goes to 20% without the Alchemy potions, and Solitude Resist Magic goes to 25%, for 45% total, which is probably around 52% total with max Alchemy potions (pretty darn nice for a single piece of equipment).

Note that this means you can get a 87% spell cost reduction on two schools and a 58% reduction on a third, if you want three spell schools to be cheap instead of two being free. If you happen to have max skill in the spell schools and spent the perks for the 50% cost reduction, that 87% becomes 95.67% cost reduction with three pieces of equipment, and the 58% becomes 86% cost reduction. Heck, if you're a mage and want four schools to be cheap, you can get four schools to 86% reduction without having to change equipment. I'm not sure what build would find that useful though.

Oh, and HP/Magicka/Stamina enchants are +62 with the Enchanter perks, but I'm not sure how high they get with good Alchemy potions. I would guess about +72 max, but that could be off by a few points. The Magicka regen enchants are the same as above, but percentages. HP/Stamina regens are half that. Carry weight enchantment max is 37 without Alchemy potions, 41 with 25% potions, and I would guess 43 with max Alchemy potions.

Hope all these numbers help. I think it would be nice to have a table somewhere (on a dedicated page, not cluttering this page) with the values at different levels of Enchanting/Enchanting Perks/Fortify Enchantment potions, but I don't know what values to use. Maybe six values, (Max Enchanting, no perks, no Alchemy potions), (Max Enchanting, no perks, max *bought* Alchemy potion), (Max Enchanting, no perks, max crafted Alchemy potion with all Alchemy perks), and then the same three with max Enchantment perks? 208.206.3.254 17:18, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

I think the limit is 2^21 - 1, or 2097151. Beyond this, the larger digits are ignored. In base 10, this would be like inputting '94501' and getting '4501', but the first digit (technically 'bit') in the game's binary notation for enchantment is used for negative numbers, so larger numbers can come out as negative or positive.--StTheo 01:40, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

-100% Spell Cost?

Just glancing at the Fortify (Magic Skill) makes it seem like it's not just possible, but fairly easy to get to -100% spell cost for at least two (and probably more) skills. Is this true or is there a cap like there is with Resist Magic?

Yes, you can cast spells for free. Without using one of the uber-gear loops, you can only get zero cost for two schools. --Fluff 18:16, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

-100% Disease/Poison?

I've come across several necklaces that offer 100% resistance to poison or disease. Given the information mentioned on this page it seems that with 100 enchanting, relevant perks, etc, you might only get 50% or less resistance. Any way that such 100% items can be made without exploiting bugs?

I've gone pretty anti-exploit since I screwed up a lot of unique items by going overboard with fortify enchantments, the fortify restoration loop, etc, etc...but I have to admit, I still try (for no longer than 30 minutes or so,otherwise I'd go crazy and go on a tri-state killing spree or something) to somehow find the ELUSIVE, MAGICAL, WONDROUS POSSIBILITIES OF HAVING...a helmet, chest armor, necklace, or ring with -100% cost for [insert Magic school here].

Alas, I have only managed to get about -71%. One of these days I'll get it right. You have to use different strength fortify enchantment gear (i.e. not just the 25% or 29% set everyone has, but the 12%, 15%, 17%, etc) and mix them up during each part of the cycle, and you only have 3, maybe four (and that is a huge maybe...) chances before everything jumps up to 10,0000 or something. --76.121.163.168 07:09, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

The best I have been able to do myself is 103% spell cost on a single item. Here is how I did it (this was on Xbox):

get 100 skill in alchemy
take 'alchemist' perk (rank 5)
take 'benefactor' perk
get 100 skill in enchanting
take 'enchanter' perk (rank 5)
take 'insightful enchanter' perk
become a vampire
take 'necromage' perk from restoration (25% benefit from enchantments for vampires)
enchant 5 items with fortify alchemy (using both falmer helmet & circlet for head)
make 'fortify enchanting' potion, drink potion, and repeat previous step until all 5 items have 33% 'fortify alchemy' enchantments (which will be listed as 41% each when equipped according to 'Active Effects')
with all five items equipped, make one 'fortify restoration' potion (should be 184% strength)
drink 184% 'fortify restoration' potion, which will then be listed as 230% in 'Active Effects' because of the necromage perk.
unequip and then re-equip alchemy gear. Each item will say 108% on the label and 136% in 'Active Effects'
wait for 'fortify restoration' potion to wear off
make another 'fortify restoration' potion, should be 468%
drink 468% potion, which will be listed as 585% in 'Active Effects'
unequip, and re-equip items. Each will say 226% on the label, and 282% in 'Active Effects'
wait for 'fortify restoration' potion to wear off.
make a 'fortify enchanting' potion which will be 227% on the label.
drink 227% 'fortify enchanting' potion, which will become 283% in 'Active Effects'.
enchant any item with any magic skill for exactly 103% less spell cost

Regardless of how you get there, the important bit at the end is:

'fortify enchanting' effect will = 283% according to 'Active Effects'
enchanting skill will = 383 according to the stars in the heavens.

I hope this helps... I don't think getting 100% exactly is possible, but 103% is close, and probably the best anyone can do. --A Caveman

Other Enchantments

I can't find the enchantment ID for the Backstab enchantment anywhere. the backstab links in the item descriptions for these items all redirect to the sneak perk, which is misleading. Is there a page that lists the enchantment IDs for unique enchantments that cant be used with the enchanting skill, such as backstab or maybe the arch-mage's robes, or is there some way of telling from the item id? anyone know the backstab id off the top of their heads? --76.118.140.49 08:31, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Ehhm...what? You're talking about a fortify backstabbing enchantment? I've never seen or heard about anything like it in Skyrim. There is a perk at sneaking for 15x damage with dagger backstabbing.... but apart from that? Please specify. --88.75.85.204 23:13, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

He's asking about the Double Sneak Attack damage enchantment on the gloves from the Dark Brotherhood questline. Kai Heilos 08:05, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Indeed. i want to ulitimently be able to put that effect on a different set of gloves using console commands. I'll probably be able to figure it out once the creation kit shows up, but it really irks me that I can't even find the effect in the console. --76.118.140.49 00:22, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

used console to enchant gloves with backstab and Konahrik's Privilege. backstab is ff15c and Konahrik's is 10fc14 174.45.196.241 04:49, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Fortify Enchanting

Can it be found? There is a book ingame, on armor enchantments, where such braces are mentioned as very rare.... --88.75.85.204 23:13, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Nope Kai Heilos 08:02, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Level 46 here, haven't seen it, don't think it exists. Perko 17:41, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Maximum Legitimate Enchanting Multiplier

I have repeatedly run the numbers, and run them again, and I just don't see how people figure 29% as the maximum from an 8% base. I end up with 31% (built-in 25% enchanting potions) or 33% (cycled 32% enchanting potions)

The formula given is: net magnitude = base magnitude * soul multiplier * skill multiplier * (1 + Enchanter perk) * (1 + specific perk modifier)

To find the total multiplier, I remove the base magnitude: Total Multiplier = soul multiplier * skill multiplier * (1 + Enchanter perk) * (1 + specific perk modifier) This is 1 * 1.243 * 2.00 * 1.25 = 3.1075

I know this is correct, because 8% base * 3.1075 = 25% (24.86%) and the normal maximum (for an 8% base) with all perks and 100 enchanting is 25%.

However when potions are brought in, this effect is boosted further. Since the text of the Fortify Enchanting page is "For <dur> seconds, items are enchanted <mag>% stronger" and the page goes on to say "It works by modifying a multiplier in the formula for enchantment strength, separate from the skill multiplier," I presume this increase is multiplicative. Using just built-in enchanting potions of 25%(no Alch-Ench cycling), this creates another 1.25 multiplier.

Added to the equation we get 3.1075 * 1.25 = 3.88437. This results in 8 * 3.88437 = 31% (31.075%). If you calculate with the theoretical maximum enchanting potion (32%) it's even higher 8 * 4.1019 = 33% (32.8152)

Unless there is a fault with my assumption that the enchanting potions are multiplied like other bonuses, I see no error with my math. Yet everywhere I look I read the maximum multiplier is closer to 3.6 (to result in 8 * Mult = 29%).

Can anyone with 100 enchanting confirm or deny my calculations and theorize as to why there is an inconsistency? --Liudeius 05:33, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't know the math behind it, but with 100 Enchanting, 5/5 Enchanter, Insightful enchanter and a 32% potion, I get 29% on an 8 base enchantment. Check the Smithing talk page, a similar issue is noted there. Seems to be some kind of diminishing returns or something in place, the game is basically lying to us. Kai Heilos 05:46, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

I think potion change base skill and not all formula, like this

skill multiplier = 1 + 0.3 * ((skill* (potion effect) -10)/100)²

net magnitude = base magnitude * soul multiplier * skill multiplier * (1 + Enchanter perk) * (1 + specific perk modifier)

In our case we get :

skill multiplier = 1 + 0.3 * ((100*1.32-10)/100)² = 1.44652

net magnitude = 8 * 1 * 1.44652 * (1 + 1) * (1 + 0.25) = 28.9304

Séraphin 15:46, 14 December 2011 (GMT+1)

Ah, ok, that makes it work better. I'll go change the "Fortify Enchanting" page because it is clearly wrong. (On a side note, 7 alchemy perks for 1%-4% increased enchanting effectiveness is totally not worth it.) Thanks. --Liudeius 15:33, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Magic School Novice - Master Perks and Charges

The page says:

"Anything that reduces spell costs for a weapon effect's school will reduce its use cost as well. This includes skill and apparel effects."

However I was under the impression that the five cost reducing perks of magic trees (the novice-master perks) did nothing to increase the number of charges. Does anyone know if the statement on the page is true, and, if so, how it is decided which perk (novice-master) applies to the particular weapon.

If not, the wording should be clarified to something along the lines of "Weapon use cost can be reduced by magic skill levels and equipment that reduces spell cost, but not perks." As the "Anything" in the current sentence would be misleading. --Liudeius 00:07, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

No the Novice-Master perks do not increase uses. I tested it with 100 destruction and no perks, then again with 100 destruction and the Novice-Master to find no change in number of uses. --Liudeius 20:06, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

I seem to have accidentally gained infinite magicka through testing this. I have 100 destruction (no perks), 360 magicka, about 40 restoration and nothing else noteworthy. Summon Flame Atronach reduces my magicka bar by about 1/10 (though it should take a third), and it almost instantly replenishes, even when I'm casting a constant spell with the other hand. Does anyone have any idea how this may have happened?--Liudeius 21:04, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Using the magical tuning gloves to clean all the magicka wells seems to give you infinite magicka until you turn them in.--Liudeius 04:15, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Can we put value in the chart here?

Is that stat available? Otherwise we're relegated to anecdotal 'this enchantment costs a lot and this one and this one' when talking about value.

Large Values Formula

For large values, is there a way to get the current formula 1 + 0.3 * ((skill-10)/100)² to fit with larger values (i.e. values generated by the fortify restoration loop)? I tried (with enchanting level 100, all enchanter perks, and the perk for fortifying skills) the following values:

Potion Magnitude = 0 (no potion) Initial Magnitude = 8 (fortify alchemy) Result = 25

This works with the formula, assuming that the skill multiplier is multiplied by 2*8*1.25 (= 20). It also works with potions fortifying 25, 43 resulting in 28, 30. However, after trying values further than that, I got these results:

(Potion Magnitude, Calculated Result, Result Displayed In-Game)

(465, 205, 203)

(915, 626, 617)

(1073, 832, 819)

(44091, 1171196, 1148388)

(88168, 4673705, 4582375)

(1640383, 1614691018, 1583036160)

The difference between calculated and displayed seems to expand smoothly until I tried a value larger than 2097151 (-1 + 2^21), so I'm guessing the stored magnitude is 21 bits long, and has an extra bit for negative values (22 bits total). Does anyone know any methods I could use to aid my obsessive need to get a 100% perfect formula (for values that, to be fair, wouldn't make any sense to ever need)? Thanks.

--StTheo 03:59, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Skill Multiplier formula

Skill multiplier is approximately 1 + 0.3 * ((skill-10)/100)2.

I did some number crunching using console and extreme enchanting levels to get a closer approximation than the formula above. It seems that [skill level] => [skill multiplier] is a polynom of 2nd order going through 0/1, 150/1.6 and 1000/30 (1x multiplier at level 0, 1.6x multiplier at level 150, 30x multiplier at level 1000).

The formula i came up with is

skill multiplier = 0.00002941176471*(skill)^2 - 0.0004117647059*(skill) + 1

Also, the magnitude of the enchantment is rounded down (floor) in the end.

Using my improved formula in Excel and rounding down the calculated values, I get correct values for skill levels up to 64'000. At even higher skill levels (before Skyrim crashes at some value between 210'000 and 240'000), Excel calculation might be off one or two magnitude points (of the total ~52mil magnitude points. That's the max precision of the factors in the above formula).

I will perform some more tests, especially using Fortify Enchanting potions, other perk settings and other enchantments (with different base values) to check my formula and rounding and report back. --84.72.54.145 04:16, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

One of the difficulties is the possibility of rounding being done somewhere in between the steps. That being said, I'm very thankful for your calculations on this! From your info, you could also write the equation as multiplier = (skill/34000)*(skill-14)+1, following the trend of multipliers being applied as magnitude *= percent+1 (also I tried to get an elegant equation).--StTheo 16:40, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

I did some experiments with the Fortify Restoration pots and i think I may have some interesting results:

-If a fortify restoration potion is active, the effect applies to all Items that have a Fortify (Skill) effect. This includes for example Armor with Fortify Alchemy AS WELL AS Potions with a Fortify Restoration effect.

However, the increased effect from drinking another Fortify Restoration potion only seems to apply, if the second potion has a higher base magnitude than the first one.

(Example: Drinking a +16% Potion, then a +24% Potion, then another +24% Potion will result in a Buff of +16% (16% pot) then +27.84% (1st 24% pot) then +24% (2nd 24% pot)

-The increased effect on items from a Fortify Restoration potion is displayed as a rounded-down number, even tough the full precision number applies, when the item is used.

(See Example above: Under the effect of a +16% pot, a +24% pot has a displayed effect value of 27% as well as 27% displayed in Active Effects when the pot is consumed. However, the full +27.84% bonus is actually applied to items/pots. This becomes evident when using items/pots with really high effects. To verify, I created a Potion with +7718%, which increased to +9866% (displayed) under the effect of the +27.84% (27% displayed) bonus, as opposed to 7718 * 1.27 = 9801%)

--84.72.54.145 20:01, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Just to make sure I'm understanding your math here, under level 20 or so, you are actually being penalized (as in getting a minus to skill check)? Pconwell 03:42, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually, the skill multiplier is less than one for skill in range [0,13] and since all your skills start at least at 15, you are never "penalized". 90.180.48.32 17:14, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Having an equation that predicted unintuitive values for part of the Skill range didn't sit right with me, so I did some testing. I created a custom Resist Magic enchantment with a base magnitude of 100,000, and used a character with no perks in Enchanting. A Silver Ring and a Grand Soul Gem were used for materials. My results indicate that the multiplier gained from your Enchanting skill uses a different formula from 0-14 than it does from 15 on up. The formula for the low levels appears to be linear, following the equation:

skill mutliplier = 0.0025*(skill/100)+1

or if you prefer:

skill mutliplier = skill/40000+1

This means the skill multiplier at 0 Skill is 1.0, and the multiplier at 14 skill is 1.00035. The testing session also generated some interesting other information:

The magnitude of the learned enchantment appears to affect the experience gained. Disenchanting to learn the 100,000 magnitude effect took the character straight from 15 to 100 Enchanting, while an earlier version with only 10,000 magnitude (which proved not to provide enough precision for testing) only took the same character to the mid-60's. The magnitude of the learned enchantment appears to affect the experience gained.
Non-integer Enchanting values are possible, and functional. Testing using the damageav and restoreav commands showed the linear pattern for below skill 15 being followed up to around 14.8 Skill.
Higher Skill on equipment enchantments seems to actually lower the value of the final item. At zero skill the item was valued well in the millions, while at 1000 the value was only 30, that of the base Silver Ring. This needs rigorous testing with realistic enchantments to confirm, as I only happened to observe this effect casually.

Hopefully some of this is of interest, as I know as far as practical value what happens below 15 Skill is rather irrelevant due to that being the minimum starting point for characters. I was hoping to find some unified equation that made sense for all Enchanting values, but as far as I can tell the game uses separate equations for Enchanting Skill<=14 and Enchanting Skill>=15. If anyone is interested I can provide the data I obtained. Arcanist 05:38, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Your first note is correct/confirmed, but the enchanting page had it wrong (fixed now). Your third note is well known and already documented somewhere, so you don't need to worry about further testing. re the rest, I doubt there are two different formulae or skill multipliers at all: I don't feel like working it out right now, but as StTheo points out above there's an offset in the formula, and I expect you just have a term that's gone negative because of the invalid values and are being misled into thinking the multiplier of the positive term has changed. Aliana 10:33, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

I find it highly unlikely that an unknown combination of rounding and unexpected results of negative values in the current formula resulted in a clear linear trend for values 0-14. And the trend was very clear, with an increase of 1 magnitude per 0.4 Enchantment skill increase. But regardless of the reason, the observed data fits the model with two formulas better than the model with just the one. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me that they'd do it that way, but without direct information about the actual calculation all I can do is come up with an explanation that best fits all the available data. Arcanist 09:17, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

This is really interesting stuff - and let me say that I appreciate the amount of work this must have been - however, I am seeing something in my game (xbox) that I can not account for: It seems that neither of these formulas are accounting for everything. They are mentioned above but I will repeat them here for comparison:

skill multiplier = 0.00002941176471*(skill)^2 - 0.0004117647059*(skill) + 1

skill multiplier = (skill/34000)*(skill-14)+1

And here's why I say that: if you take "Stamina Damage" for example, because it has a base of 15, and apply augmented flames rank 2 (from destruction), and Fire Enchanter perk (from enchanting) and all the skills and perks, etc, and then apply these formulas (with NO potions) you'd get a calculated weapon max magnitude = 70.4779358. However, in the game, with no cheating or exploits or whatever, the answer is 69 points of Stamina damage (so the formula is close - but still not quite accurate). With a 28% potion, the formula calculates a result of 80, while the game reports a result of 79, with a 32% potion the formula calculates a result of 82 while the game creates an enchantment of 81 points.

the results are very close, but something is a bit off. I wonder what it could be. --A Caveman

Linwe's Hood

I've been able to disenchant Linwe's hood for a unique +archery effect, with a +15% base rather than +13%. Dunno if it progesses as well/better with increased skill because it's on one of my lower level characters, but it might be worth a note if others can repeat this, especially if it is better than the standard Fortify Archery skill.— Unsigned comment by 98.240.228.164 (talk) at 17:03 on 2 Januari 2012

As stated on the Unique Items page, "Although Linwe's Armor, Boots, Hood, and Gloves can all be disenchanted, the effects that you learn are unusable, making disenchanting pointless. The items each use variants of the standard Fortify effects, named Shadowthrive, Shadowstrength, Shadowsight, and Shadowstrike, respectively. These versions of the effects are not enabled for any enchanting slots, meaning they cannot be applied to any items." --Fluff 20:04, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Unarmed enchant bugged

The unarmed enchant is bugged somehow. With all related perks, I'm seeing only 12 damage over the base of 5. I calculated out what it would be with only 100 skill and 5/5 enchant perk, and it comes to 11.3. Without the 5/5 and insightful applied, it comes to 12.4. So, one set of these perks isn't working. It should be 15.6. --98.197.130.252 03:52, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Magic School affect on Enchantment clarification

From what I've read here, it seems that the magic school's affect on charges and damage via perks is only relevant to your character. If I enchant the weapon then give it to my follower the damage and charges for her will be different because it will be based off her level/perks in that school.

Basically, while a magic school allows you to use the enchantment more effectively, it does not change the "actual" enchantment applied to the weapon. If this is true, I think it should be clarified in that section of the page. It would be very easy to believe that increasing skill/perks in a particular magic school would lead to better enchanting. Rookwood 01:18, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't believe a change is necessary. Your perks always affect the displayed value whether you're talking about damage, enchantments, etc. Perks that improve the strength of your enchantments affect the item enchanted so that enchantment will carryover if you give that item to a follower. There is no enchantment to a weapon that affects its charges. Perks and enchantments that decrease your spell cost also decrease the cost of each spent charge on a weapon thus the weapon has more charges. I assume if you gave your follower armor, ring, etc. that had fortify destruction enchantment applied, a similar increase in weapon charges would result. 75.80.97.155 04:15, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

"Perks that improve the strength of your enchantments affect the item enchanted so that enchantment will carryover if you give that item to a follower."

But that's not true. Augmented flames improves the strength of my fire enchantments by 50%.... but only so long as I use them. If I give it to a follower, she does not have Augmented Flames so she does not get the extra damage. Right? See I don't know, but I don't see how a few extra sentences to clarify one way or the other would hurt. Rookwood 19:23, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Paralyze Enchant

I hate it when game developers do this. What's the proc chance on this and chance to resist? From what I've seen, it's horrible in both cases, with some enemies (stronger high-level ones) completely resisting the effect in every instance. From the in-game description you would think it would be amazing but after some initial tests the results were pretty sad. I mean, it isn't very helpful to paralyze an already weak enemy you were going to defeat without the enchant opposed to a strong enemy where you would need every saving grace you could get.--69.205.180.81 04:47, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Base Uses?

Does anyone know where the "Base Uses" listed under Weapon Effects came from? Or what the mysterious console command is that allows this value to be seen?

My primary interest here is in trying to consolidate various pieces of information -- in particular to change this page to use the enchantment costs listed in the game data (which would be nice whole values instead of numbers arbitrarily rounded to one decimal place). This would then allow custom enchantments to be quantified using the same metrics as built-in enchantments.

Presumably the relationship between Base Uses and enchantment cost is something like: Base_Uses = soul_gem_charge / enchantment_cost. However, that equation doesn't work out (unless soul_gem_charge has values like 700 and 735 -- I'd expect it to be a constant 3000).

If anyone could explain where the equations under Effect Charges and Strength came from -- especially the weapon-related ones -- that would also be appreciated. --Nephele^Talk 00:40, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

I derived these formulas, and I'm afraid I can't give a better answer than empirical testing. This is how I did it:

I found the form of the "skill capacity multiplier" and "skill cost multiplier" by using setav enchanting and seeing the effect on the number of uses. IIRC this portion matches the data exactly.
This resulted in a 199 skill giving a x399.5 multiplier to number of uses relative to 0 skill.
The "base uses" listed is equal to the number of uses at 0 Enchanting, no bonuses, a Grand soul, and maximum effect magnitude. To increase the precision of the measurement, instead of taking the number at 0 Enchanting directly, I used the number of uses at 199 Enchanting and divided by 399.5. (This is how I was able to get the extra decimal place.)

There is also evidence that the displayed number of uses does not match actual use. Like you, I suspect there is some relation to the "Cost" listed on the effect pages, but I couldn't figure out any specific relationship. It may have to wait until the Creation Kit comes out to figure out anything more specific--perhaps there we will be able to see some values for soul gem capacities. --Evil4Zerggin 05:56, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

As for the effect strength, I couldn't figure out an exact formula. The one listed fits the data fairly well, especially within typical ranges of operation, but at very high skill levels (200+) it tends to overestimate slightly IIRC. --Evil4Zerggin 05:59, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

(Edit: Looks like some people improved the formula after I made my original estimate. --Evil4Zerggin 21:26, 27 January 2012 (UTC))

Thanks for the extra info.

Your (magnitude/maximum magnitude)^1.1 factor was a huge help for me figuring out the gold values associated with of all the game's non-custom enchantments (details at SR talk:Generic Magic Apparel and SR talk:Generic Magic Weapons). However, coming back here to look more at the custom enchantments I'm still basically just as clueless about what's going on. There seems to be almost no similarity between the calculations for custom enchants and for non-custom enchants.

In particular, for apparel, the magnitude of the enchantment is at most a secondary factor in the gold value. For example, gold values can be different for petty and lesser gems, even though the magnitude of the enchantment is the same. Gold values do seem to be affected by the same (1 - skill/200) factor as the charges -- in particular because gold values are 0 at skill 200.

About the only useful bit of info I can contribute is that I've worked out the soul gem capacities (see SR:Soul Gems). --Nephele^Talk 04:21, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Availability by level

I've been wandering around Skrim at level 1 seeing what you can get your hands on from the start of the game, and it looks like it's almost everything:

All 17 possible skills
All Fortify <School> and Magicka Regen items
All Fortify Attribute: Health, Magicka, Stamina
Fortify Magicka Regen
Resistances: Fire, Frost, Shock, Magic
Fortify Carry Weight
Fortify Barter
All Damages: Fire, Frost, Shock, Magicka, Stamina
Fear, Turn Undead
Soul Trap

That only leaves Banish, which we know is 22, and:

Absorb Health, Magicka, Stamina: 7
Fortify Health Regen: 16
Fortify Stamina Regen: 16
Resist Poison: 5
Resist Disease: 10
Muffle: 11
Paralyze: 22
Waterbreathing: 1

I'm ignoring one-offs like Fortify Unarmed, Fiery Soul Trap, etc. The CK will resolve any leveled-list cases, but if someone comes across "early" instances of any of these, it would be good to know. Aliana 22:40, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

This is just directly driven by the leveled lists, and all of the leveled lists have already been extracted from the game data -- waiting for the CK isn't going to change the info we already have. In particular, the levels for all generic items are already documented at Generic Magic Weapons and Generic Magic Apparel. Waterbreathing is in fact available at level 1, but only as jewelry, which may be why you missed it. The levels at which the other items appear can all be looked up those pages. --Nephele^Talk 23:04, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Doh! Thanks. That said, those pages are both absolutely huge, and not linked from here, so it's not really all that easy to find a specific enchantment's availability from this page, which it kind of should be. If you could add a column for that into the table, it would be a lot better than either not having the information readily available or needing a bunch of text for all the non-level-1 ones. Aliana 23:32, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

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