Oblivion talk:Traveling People

Schedules

I made this list using the CS and then looked in-game if the information was correct. And it wasn't at all. For example Ida Ottus is supposed to leave from the imperial city at the 28th at 1 pm, but she goes away at 1 am. Her travelling package is a wander package in the flowing bowl in Anvil which starts at the 28th at 1 pm. It lasts 25 hours, so it supposed to end at the 29th at 2 pm. Instead of this Ida leaves the flowing bowl at midnight, the 30th. So I'm pretty confused with the AI. One observation I made by following several of these is that probably their journey starts around midnight.Theviking 20:49, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

They do indeed start at midnight in most of the cases. We were never able to find out exactly why (look here for a bit of discussion), but that will not change the fact, that this list is much needed, and will be a super tool in the OBNPCRP. Great work! Krusty 22:14, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

As a matter of fact, here is the traveling NPCs that we have done and monitored in-game for the ONPCRP.

• Dralora Athram (written in-game)
• Oghash gra-Magul (still in progress, as she is one of the most complicated NPCs in the game)
• S'rathad (finished)
• Thamriel (finished)
• Ulen Athram (written in-game)

That's it. Check out the pages to see, what times matches the Traveling People-page. I'm doing it this way, because it should be you who make the changes, at least the first time. If you can see ANY kind of pattern, it would be great to provide some sort of explanation as to WHY they leave at midnight.

More discussions on traveling NPC's here and our progress with Oghash here. Krusty 02:54, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

I did some experimenting, I've narrowed the cause of the midnight departure down to two variables. Firstly it could be caused by the wander package. When I followed Quill-Weave, she departed at 7 am and returned at 3 or 4 pm (just missed it). She is one of the two (the other being countess allessia Caro) of these NPC's with a find package instead of a wander package and she departed at the right time. This might mean that the wander package of the other NPC's is messing things up.

Secondly, it could be caused by the date in the package. The travelling NPC's are the only ones to have a date in their packages. When I changed Ida Ottus' travel package from the 28th to monday, she departed later at 7 am. (Still no one near the expected departure at 1 pm). When I set her departure time 4 hours later, she went at 9 am. So these are my results for now.Theviking 10:02, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

Brilliant, that you have experimented with it, and have some theories. It's a bit weird all over (as you can see on me and Rpeh's discussion here), but there must be some kind of explanation for those traveling times at midnight, and it would be great to solve the mystery. Then we could write some kind of standard explanation and include it on your new page, as well as the NPCs own page. For the record, I have followed Wummek around as well, and he left for Lewayiin at 5am as he is supposed to. At least, that gives you one more to take into consideration - if he owns a find package as well, you might be on to something! Krusty 10:26, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

I found it! Quil-Weave and Wumeek's packages have one thing in common, they don't have a duration in their travel package. It looks like the long duration of most of the packages is making the odd AI changes. The only thing we have to do now to find out if this is true, is to follow Tertius Favonius. He also doesnt have a duration in his package and so he should leave at the right time. (or countess alessia caro, but she has a find package and Tertius has a wander one.) I can't test this out now, but I'm sure we will find out later.Theviking 11:29, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

Sounds great! I'm on another NPC right now (Quill-Weave as a matter of fact), but let me know if you can't find the time to check Tertius - then I'll do it as soon as I can! (Crosses fingers for a solution) Krusty 16:17, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

Nope I can't. Oblivion is on another computer only accessible in the weekends, :(. So if you could do that, thank you.Theviking 16:56, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

You got it - watch these pages! Krusty 17:20, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

Success! On the 19th, he left his house at exactly 8am as he was supposed to. He even stood up at 6am and wandered around for a couple of hours before leaving. I think we're on to something here. Now, if we're sure, we have solved it, the next step must be to get some kind of paragraph written on the subject. It should mention something along the lines of "According to the CS he/she was supposed to leave at [--], but due to [--] he leaves at midnight instead. Maybe even a "CS" and "In-game" column on your page or something? But only if we're sure, of course. :) Krusty 07:16, 2 June 2009 (EDT)

How about: (NPCName) prefers to leave early to arrive in time at his/her destination, so he/she leaves at midnight instead of the usual time of (package begin time).

I prefer to keep the times in my table all in-game, because it is the end result and otherwise people following these NPC's will miss them.Theviking 07:46, 2 June 2009 (EDT)

Personally, I would prefer the explanation to be a bit more on the technical side (like this, just not nearly as long), but when we're dealing with standard templates, it's probably best to invite an administrator to decide which solution is the best. Even though he's taking a break these days, I'll try to contact Rpeh on his talk page, as he might just be interested in our discoveries - and initially took a big interest in, as to WHY the NPCs left at midnight in the first place. Also, (and I will spare you for yet another link to the discussion) there's a bit more info, that should be added to the template; 1: How long does it take the NPC to get there in-game? If you wait at the destinations, when will they arrive/return ect ect. But the first step is taken, and the puzzle have been solved. And that's great! Krusty 08:13, 2 June 2009 (EDT)

Interesting, and nice research. I dunno whether it needs a separate template for the note or whether a similar entry in each affected NPC's bug list will be sufficient. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 09:56, 2 June 2009 (EDT)

I think I'll vote for a standard bug-list description, we can add to the NPC pages - unless the technical explanation gets too long or something. Still, we have another thing to take into consideration, and that's the traveling times (and that's why your suggestion might not hold water in the long run, Theviking.) I would have given this a bit more testing, but I might as well spill it here:

After oberserving some five traveling NPCs, I noticed something interesting. If you wait for them at their destination, the traveling time is halved. Meaning, that if you follow Dralora Athram all the way to Leyawiin, it will take her about 24 hours. But if you wait for her in Leyawiin, she will make the trip in 12 hours. And the same with Ulen Athram - 8 hours if you follow him, 4 hours if you wait. My theory is, that the game engine calculates in some weird way, but it might not be THAT weird if the traveling times are just halved. I've tested this with fast-traveling and the wait-feature also, and even though these two features screw up things a little bit, it's still pretty close. Now for the big question: Can the CS tell ANYTHING at all about traveling times - or is this an in-game-only problem? Krusty 11:12, 2 June 2009 (EDT)

In terms of fast-travelling, it might well be that the NPCs always arrive when you do, or that it is in some way related to you fast-travelling. The reason I say this is due to the many quests where you have to bring someone from Point A to Point B (Dar-Ma, for instance), and invariably, they'll arrive with you, even if you're on a horse and they're not or whatever other conditions.

Good work in regards to the schedule issue, btw. If you have a list of all the NPCs that have this behaviour, send me a list (on my talk page is fine) and I'll see what I can do to work around the issue in Rob's Fixes, in the event that anybody ever needs a fix for it. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 23:24, 2 June 2009 (EDT)

More NPCs on the page?

Come to think of it, what about those NPCs who takes shorter, but still regular, journeys? Like Erthor and Carandial? Should they be on the list, or is it city-to-city travelers only? Krusty 11:30, 2 June 2009 (EDT)

I think so, I just couldn't find their AI packages as easily as the big travelling ones. I think the rule of thumb should be that the NPC makes a regular journey and passes through to the wilderness so that he can be encountered by the player outside of the cities. (They should originate inside a city to exclude the wilderness NPC's). So yes...Theviking 11:40, 2 June 2009 (EDT)

The Strange Case of Quill-Weave

Following our discussion above, I figured it would be interesting to follow one of the "Traveling NPC's with no bugs", and picked Quill-Weave. I have now spent way too much time on it, and have all of her schedule written down, but there's something odd going on - I'm posting this here, because I have a feeling it might be related to our discussion and discoveries on traveling NPCs. Here's the facts about her journey to Chorrol:

• She leaves Anvil on the 7th at 6am.
• If you follow her all the way, the trip takes her 36 in-game hours - she arrives in Chorrol at around 12pm the next day.
• Once there, she will actively seek out Casta Scribonia - not her house, but Casta herself. She will follow her around, no matter where she goes.

Everything's good so far - but;

• At 10pm, Casta leaves the Mages Guild and heads home. Quill-Weave follows her, and will wait outside her house for a brief amount of time before entering. She will then wander around inside until midnight, where she will go to sleep in Casta'a bed! She will get out of bed at 8am - and then just stay in Chorrol, near Casta, for all eternity. If you leave Chorrol, she will be back in Anvil at some point, so it's possible to break her new schedule in Chorrol by simply fast-traveling, but still: Why??

What I don't understand is this - why is she taking on some new sleeping schedule, while she's in Chorrol? She NEVER wakes up at 8am in Anvil, always 6am. I have never seen a Traveling NPC actually going to bed while on their trip. To make matters worse, Quill-Weave's presence seems to affect Casta as well, as she will cancel ALL her "appointments" and stay in the house with her guest. And they will both proceed to stay in the house, and Quill-Weave will continue to sleep between midnight and 8am.

Off course, I know that this very page states, that she's supposed to return to Anvil at 4am on the 8th - and at that time, when I followed her, Quill-Weave was still traveling, so that might be the reason why the whole thing is screwed up. Wrong - I also tested this where I waited for her in Chorrol, and she arrived, found Casta - and stayed with her, went to bed on the 8th at midnight and slept securely when the clock hit 4am.

I still have a few more tests to do, but I could really use the knowledge from the CS masters - is there ANYTHING in there implying why she would stay in Chorrol? Anything that describes a sleeping schedule between midnight and 8am? Can this whole thing somehow be blamed on our "new discovery" meaning, that even "healthy" NPCs are bugged?

For my own sake, these are the things I'm going to check as the last thing - just to see, if I can get at least SOME departure time out of her:

• Wait outside Chorrol and check, when she leaves (if ever)
• Wait in Anvil and check, when she returns (if ever)

Please help! Her page is ready to go, except for this weird journey - and, as I have spent HOURS figuring out her "ordinary" schedule, I'd hate to give up on her because of this! Krusty 03:41, 5 June 2009 (EDT)

She has a sleeping package in Chorrol, from midnight to 8 am. She does this when in Chorrol and when the date is lower than 14. (This means she intends to stay until the 13th probably!) The same is true for the wander package to tells her to go near Casta Scribonia, it is also true when it is a date lower than 14.It looks like she is taking an extra long vacation... Probably when you are fast traveling back to Anvil, you take her with you for some strange reason and then both the sleep and wander packages are untrue because she isn't in Chorrol.Theviking 12:47, 5 June 2009 (EDT)

Wow! Even more complicated than I thought, but thanks for looking. Let me get this straight; She travels to Chorrol, and have some kindda return package on the 8th, right? I assume, she must have, as this was the first date you wrote on the page. This must mean, that if you TRIGGER the Casta Scribonia and sleeping-package in Chorrol, she will just stay there (meaning, if you meet her in Chorrol or follow her there) until the 13th or 14th? I'll bet an arm and a leg, that this is the case - because I waited for her outside the Chorrol gate, and she came out after only two hours (on the 8th at 2pm). Meaning, that the sleeping package is triggered the minute you enter Chorrol, and, if youre not in Chorrol, she will pick the return-8th package. Complicated stuff! How am I EVER going to explain this on her page? :D Anyway, I'll check to see, when she heads back if you stay in Chorrol with her and Casta. Any suggestions for a "note" - or "bug" description will be more than welcome! Btw, I'll bet that the "14th-package" resets when you fast-travel to Anvil (or maybe you just have to leave Chorrol?) - just a thought, though. Krusty 14:12, 5 June 2009 (EDT)

Here's my take on an explanation, as I would write it on her page:

NOTES:

• As several AI packages are used to determine her actions during her monthly trip to Chorrol, Quill-Weave might return to Anvil as soon as she arrives, or stay for nearly a week, not departing before 12am on the 14th. The reason for this is, that she has a return package telling her to return to Anvil on the 8th at 4am, but if you enter Chorrol or meet her there, her sleeping package in Casta Scribonius’ house is activated, causing her to stay in town for nearly a week. If you leave Chorrol, her old return package is activated, and she will head back to Anvil. Also, if she is in Chorrol on Loredas, she will hurry back to Anvil to participate in the dinner at the Anvil Castle.

Is this okay? I really can't describe it any better, and rarely have an NPC undergone this much testing. Please, feel free to add whatever corrections you may have, so I can copy/paste the note unto her page. Thanks in advance! (and btw, maybe you should mention this on the traveling NPC-page as well?) Krusty 16:44, 5 June 2009 (EDT)

Sorry, 'bout the double edit - I'm pretty tired by now. Anyway, something occured to me: She's programmed to return to Anvil when she has to attend the Countess' formal dinner at Anvil Castle at 7pm (which occurs only on Loredas and Sundas). THAT might explain why the AI is set to the 14th - she will always meet a Loredas while in Chorrol, which will make her return to Anvil. Clever! Krusty 17:22, 5 June 2009 (EDT)

That might be the best explanation, it has the top priority for her. Personally I'm puzzled why she leaves Chorrol at all, nothing indicated she leaves Chorrol before the 14th except this. (Nowhere near the 2-4pm leave that we both saw) I'm thinking she prepares to leave early to arrive in time at the castle dinner.Theviking 17:37, 5 June 2009 (EDT)

Another strange case: Wumeek!

So, as I mentioned earlier, I have all the data on Wumeek. But his trip to Leyawiin is strange. He left the IC at 5am, and I followed him all the way there, and as soon as he arrived, he entered the Five Claws Lodge (as expected). BUT, he merely stayed in there for 10 in-game minutes before he was on his way home again. Now, the traveling-page states, that there might be some kind of mistake, and that he is supposed to take off from the IC and leave from Leyawiin at the same day. If this is the case, then it makes sense, that as soon as he arrives at the Lodge, he takes off for the IC. Can you please look into the CS and see, if I'm right? Thanks in advance. Krusty 22:17, 17 June 2009 (EDT)

I found the cause of the problem. Wumeek is supposed to visit Weebam-Na when he is in Leyawiin. But this will only occur if he arrives there between 10am and 8pm. But there is a second reason, and that one prevents Weemuk from ever visiting Weebam-Na. It seems that the conditions for the AI package are: GetStage DANocturnal <= 20 AND GetStage DANocturnal >= 100. That's a logical contadriction. You can't be on two quest stages at the same time. --Timenn < talk > 10:08, 19 June 2009 (EDT)

Noticeably even the UOP doesn't fix this. I'll add it to Rob's Fixes. Should the signs just be reversed, or is this something that should be an OR condition instead of an AND. (I've only looked at the report here, I haven't looked at the actual behaviour to know what would make sense.) --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 17:14, 19 June 2009 (EDT)

Yes, both the GetStage function conditions should be under an OR operator. I did send Kivan a mail about it missing in UOP. --Timenn < talk > 17:20, 19 June 2009 (EDT)

Okay, done. As far as I can tell, the only way to do it is to separate the one package into two because there's no way of adding additional parentheses to the condition that I'm aware of, so the conditions for each package now look like this (with package details otherwise being the same):

(GetStage DANocturnal <= 20.00) AND (GetInCell LeyawiinFiveClawsLodge == 1.00) OR (GetDistance WeebamNaRef < 256.00)

(GetStage DANocturnal >= 100.00) AND (GetInCell LeyawiinFiveClawsLodge == 1.00)

Assuming they're applying logical order-of-operations laws as they should, the OR part in the second package becomes redundant, since it's covered in the first. Right? --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 18:15, 19 June 2009 (EDT)

Umm, the original conditions check whether the quest stage is anywhere from 20 to 100, so it checks whether you have summoned Nocturnal, so it is NOT a logical contradiction. Also, if they were under an OR operator, then it would always work because the stage is always 100 or less... It would be a logical contradiction if it was like this :

(GetStage DANocturnal == 20) AND (GetStage DANocturnal == 100)

But since the operators used when comparing values are at least and at most, it is perfectly logical. SuggestedBowl 10:02, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

M'aiq's Strange Obsession

Should the fact that M'aiq the Liar has a burning desire for calipers be put on the page under secondary destination?It's a Teddy Lich! 02:26, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

No, because it's not a destination. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 06:28, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Allesia's trip

At first I thought that on the trip to Chorrol, Allesia went first, and her guard followed her, and Hlidora following the guard. But then I saw Hlidora travelling on her own! Do they all just go at their own place? Or did she get seperated by a fight?--Arch-Mage Matt 21:14, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

It's hard to say exactly what went wrong in your game, but Hlidara follows the Countess and not the bodyguard. They might have been separated for whatever reason (or, if you completed Ahdarji's Heirloom, the Countess could be dead), but everything can happen in the wilderness. --Krusty 10:03, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

plz mention if they can get killed

i dont know where to look but without my hands this is the only place i know i have to restart to save their lives, so id like to see who i should worry about and who i shouldnt by mentioning who can be killed, (unless if they can all die, probably after the quests yes,,) i really dont know where to look else — Unsigned comment by 74.57.170.155 (talk) at 21:03 on 25 June 2013

Most of them can die. Please keep the other comment to yourself, it is rude and unhelpful, so I removed it. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 21:08, 25 June 2013 (GMT)