Oblivion talk:Easter Eggs/Archive 5

This is an archive of past Oblivion talk:Easter Eggs discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Can people stop trying to call everything an Egg because it sounds similar.

Honestly its getting moronic.

""Nu-Mantia", the mystical term for freedom used in the Mythic Dawn Commentaries, is a reference to the classic play La Numancia by Spanish playwright Miguel de Cervantes (of Don Quixote fame). Numantia was a Celtiberian hill town in central Spain that was destroyed by the Romans after a lengthy siege. The play is a tribute to the dogged defenders and their passionate defense of their freedom."

Simler sound does not an egg make. — Unsigned comment by 86.40.166.190 (talk) at 16:36 on 11 May 2009

As Patrollers and Administrators, we usually try to be more diplomatic than that, but yeah, it's a common issue on pages like this. :) --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 18:48, 11 May 2009 (EDT)

It needs to be seriously cleaned up. Statements that include language like "probably means", "seems to be", "similar to" are rubbish. We need to take a hard line and borrow a rule from Wikipedia: unless you have a source that proves Bethsoft intended it to mean something, it's not an Easter egg. Just because you think it's so doesn't make it real to anyone but yourself. Accidental or entirely subjective "similarities" are not Easter eggs. Easter eggs are intentional inclusions that make reference to other things outside the game. Phelaran 21:06, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

While this is true to an extent, there's no way of being 100% certain about anything. I think most of us would agree that "Jakben Imbel" is intended to be a play on "Jack Be Nimble", but can you prove it...for an absolute, undeniable fact? No, you can't—at least not unless you get someone at Bethesda to confirm that that was what they meant (or find some other reference in the Construction Set or the game itself that says so). So it's always a judgement call, and honestly, I think the best you'll ever get are probably's and seems to be's. —Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 01:39, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Lorem ipsum placeholder text - possible easter egg?

When an NPC is doing there "book reading" animation, reading over there shoulder (or using noclip) on high quality will reveal that the text seems to be Lorem ipsum, a commonly used Greek placeholder text.

Could this be considered an Easter egg? — Unsigned comment by 125.238.208.124 (talk) at 06:51 on 31 May 2009

Significant use of Greek Latin in the middle of an otherwise English and invented-language game would definitely constitute an egg in my book. If you can grab a picture of it, that would be especially useful in terms of making a better presentation, I think. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 15:48, 5 June 2009 (EDT)

OK, heres a screenshot of what I mean: image

As you can see, even on maximum setting its still pretty blurry, but you can make out the first few words: Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit which matches the first line of the Lorem Ipsum text (more info at wikipedia: [1]). Strangely, after this first line it seems to be quitre different from the wikipedia version, although it is too blurry to translate.

Looks good. Feel free to add it to the main article. (PS, I reformatted a your image link...could've been done any number of ways, but the external link wasn't really a necessity, and I thought you might've been having difficulty with the link...though I've been known to put [[ ]] around an external link before <g>). --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 02:17, 7 June 2009 (EDT)

This is not an Easter egg. "Lorem ipsum" is standard Latin (not Greek) placeholder text used in English and French publication and layout. It is not "significant use of Greek" or any other non-English language in "an otherwise English and invented-language game". It is just placeholder text as commonly used in English and French publication. If it is an Easter egg, what is the Easter egg referring to? The fact that it is Latin or pseudo-Latin just adds historical cache, and it looks "real" as opposed to squiggly lines or fuzzy indecipherable shapes. Phelaran 20:58, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, it's pseudo-Latin based on Cicero, but all mangled. (Saying it was Greek was a typo on my part in my original reply.) As for being an easter egg, perhaps it's not in the most technical sense of the term, but at the same time, you generally don't expect to see real-world text placeholders in a fantasy-world game, either. You could argue that it was accidentally left there and was intended to be replaced before the game was released, but either way, it's out-of-place in a fantasy game. —Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 01:59, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Chaucer?

I think 'Hallgerd's Tale' should be added to the easter eggs page as a cultural reference. It may just be an opinion of mine, but this series of tales (the others being Bones1&2 and Vernaccus and Bourlor) from a group of friends bears quite a few resemblances to Chaucer's 'Canterbury Tales' in which a group of pilgrims tell stories to keep each other's spirits up. Each of these tales was named after their respective storyteller (The Knight's Tale, The Miller's Tale etc) and I think calling this Hallgerd's Tale is no coincidence. Hallgerd's Tale also seems to be a mix of the two Canterbury Tales I mentioned above; The Knight's Tale being one of chivalry and honour set around jousting tournaments, and The Miller's Tale being a story of adultery and crude sexual themes. SteVB (82.203.3.6 10:27, 3 June 2009 (EDT))

It sounds like you may have something. If others who have read Chaucer agree that there are similarities, then I'd say it could be added to the page. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 15:41, 5 June 2009 (EDT)

I can only hope someone else has read Chaucer, he's even harder to follow than Shakespeare lol. SteVB (82.203.3.9 08:57, 15 June 2009 (EDT))

Funny... I thought we already had this one. The name and style are definitely Chaucerian. The language is rather more contemporary than the Canterbury Tales, but otherwise it's definitely egg-worthy. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 09:35, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

To me it is more the style of Chaucer's source of inpsiration: Bocacio's Decameron. It tells a lot of stories about 'chivalric' men full of lust, burlesque things and lots of witty actions used to reach their lover. Hallgerd's Tale is also more in his style of writing.Texts viewable here. Amemiya 12:05, 23 June 2009 (EDT)

I personally don't feel that this constitutes an egg. While the fact that it is written as someone telling the story, you must look at the fact that it's a conversation between only two people. The theme of the story also doesn't follow any of the actual Tales closely enough to be considered an egg. --Rohndogg1 14:45, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Knights Templar

Should it be mentioned the Knights of the Nine are similar/reminscient of the Knights Templar? On the basis of this:
The Knights of the Nine protect a Religion. The Knights Templar protected Christianity.

The outfit of the Knights of the Nine is a white mantle with a red diamond. The outfit of a Knights Templar is a white mantle with a cross.Kestral 22:11, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

I'm not a historian so I don't know, but if you can demonstrate that no other notable groups of knights bore similar similarities, then I would say it might have a place. If other groups of knights do have similarities, though, then this would become simply a variation on multiple groups, which isn't worth noting. So decide based on that, and if others desagree, well, that's what Undo is for. :) --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 15:39, 5 June 2009 (EDT)

Theres also the fact that the player is named Crusader, and the high ranked templars were also called Crusaders, I believe. The helm and Sword design also look close to templar items. 71.3.69.212 02:35, 7 June 2009 (EDT)

My opinion is that it definitely should be added. Not only the asthetic decoration of the armour, but also the physical shaping (the narrow eye slot on the helm, the shape of the shield, etc) bears more than a coincidental resemblance to the Templar Knights. The heroic and historical status of the KotN in ES lore is also quite similar to that of the Knights Templar during the crusades, who became a revered and formidable force in their own right. SteVB (82.203.3.9 08:52, 15 June 2009 (EDT))

This is too much of a stretch. The Knights Templar weren't the only knightly order around. From memory, I can recall the Knights of St John based in Rhodes and then Malta; the Knights of the Sword in Livonia, the Teutonic Knights in Prussia and the Knights Hospitaller based in the Holy Land. All of these knightly orders were founded to go crusading against non-Christians, either in the Middle East or Eastern Europe, and the armor is similar to most armor used by such orders. It's not an easter egg, just keeping it real. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 09:24, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

There are certainly other orders of knights, no question there, but are the physical characteristics also similar to those listed here? (I'm neutral on this, btw, just trying to point out both sides of the argument.) --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 14:09, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

Figuring the Templar had a red cross as their insignia, and figuring that the warriors were generically called crusaders, I don't think it warrants a mention. --Mr. Oblivion^(T-C) 14:36, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

(outdent) Look also at SteVB's points. Looking around for myself, the biggest problem I see in proving this is that the various orders of knights are depicted in so many different outfits and styles in art, and without doing a really thorough search, it's hard to tell what's a modern image of "the way things were" vs. how they really were. Certainly in my Google Image searches, I'd have to say that the strongest resemblance I saw was indeed to the Knights Templar, but there were certainly good resemblances with other groups of knights as well (and, of course, between the groups themselves). So I'm not really sure if you can say they resemble only the Knights Templar, but I can see a case being made. Long story short, even trying to form an opinion, I'm still up in the air on this one! :) --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 14:55, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

Basically, it would be like making a notice that the apple and orange are so related because they are fruits, completely ignoring the fact that there are other fruits. Same here. There are other knights. So pointing out a similarity that stretches throughout history and throughout the orders is an erroneous notion. --Mr. Oblivion^(T-C) 15:00, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

My definition of easter eggs is taken from here, and on the "Put There by the Creators for Personal Reasons" and "ENTERTAINING!" (their caps) criteria, this one fails.

There's a difference between making a reference and making an easter egg. See the St Jahn's Wort entry above. What we have here is a knightly order that shews a device on its livery. This will have been designed with reference to previous knightly orders, but simply cannot be claimed to be an easter egg. "Personal Reasons"? No - historical reasons. Knights dressed as knights isn't an e-egg. We may as well have "Beggars wear cheap clothing. This is clearly a reference to how beggars wear cheap clothing in real life".

One feature of the human brain that has made it so successful is that it is a brilliant pattern-recognition device. Unfortunately, now that it's engaged in more cerebral activities than "That's a lion - run!", "That's a tasty fruit - eat" or "That's a tasty (male/female - delete according to gender and/or preference)", it starts to spot patterns that simply don't exist. The most famous recent are examples are about people seeing Jesus in clouds/Marmite/pizza/whatever as some kind of sign rather than pure chance. What WE get is people saying "X (sounds/looks like/reminds me) a bit of Y" and claiming an easter egg.

Look at the Unfriendly Competition quest (see the article for details). "Oford Gabings" is obviously meant to refer to "Frodo Baggins" given the cursed ring reference in the manifest, but there's nothing to suggest that the Weatherward Circlet is anything to do with the One Ring. What happened is that people added two things together and matched a pattern that really doesn't match.

I've just gone through the first few entries and added references for some entries whilst removing one and adding VNs for the rest (do we want a separate tag for cite?). All the other entries should be given a citation. If there isn't one that can be found, the egg should go. Let's stop hosting anybody's personal theories here. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 17:10, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

Perhaps it would be better to have a separate page for items that are not obvious eggs, or are real-world references (or whatever) that would be of interest to some people, but do not fall into the egg category? I remember re-vamping this page about a year ago and taking out things I thought were too far out there, but I think it would be a waste to just garbage anything that could be interesting but isn't "up to par". As for citations, I would say one simple thing: this isn't Wikipedia. If you strongly feel that everything on this page should be cited, start a topic on it here (or Community Portal or wherever) and we'll get consensus on it. Personally, I think that's going way overboard. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 19:53, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

I think this discussion has proved to ourselves that "easter egg" is too specific a term to be applied to a page that deals with cultural and other such references as much as it does with genuine easter eggs. The appearance of the KotN/Knights Templar "reference" on the easter eggs page is a result of not having an appropriate page for it to appear on. As a wet-behind-the-ears editor I'm reluctant to try this myself, but I am certain we need a new page for cultural references wherein we can decide upon the above, and other references without concerning ourselves with their value as eggs.

On the topic at hand, I am swayed by Rpeh's point that there were other knights than the Templars, that they were all likely called crusaders, bearing similar armour, devoted to slicing and dicing in the name of religion and that only recognising one particular group of these is somewhat ignorant. However I have to to remind myself that the first thing I thought (and what I imagine many players will have thought) upon seeing KotN was "ah look they're like the Knights Templar..." and although this might be a result of ignorance to other orders of knights, it is an ignorance born of the much greater fame and recognition they gathered over such orders.(Gsd.SteVB 10:48, 23 June 2009 (EDT))

I don't think the Nights of the Nine is a reference or an easter egg to the Nights Tempar but is merely insprired by them. — Unsigned comment by 121.208.82.102 (talk) at 22:01 on 21 September 2009

Missing Oblivion Easter Egg

Moved from Administrator Noticeboard.

The item known as "Skull of Corruption" is a reference to Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne by Blizzard, in which, when playing as the Undead, the player has access to an item called Skull of Corruption which creates a small area of blight at a targeted area.

- Shaun Hendren-McMillan 09-06-2009 4:18am

Sorry but the Scull of Corruption was in Arena from 1994 and Warcraft III: Frozen Throne was released in 2003

Order of the Dragon

Upon finishing the main quest, you are inducted into the Order of the Dragon and given the title: Champion of Cyrodiil. The Order of the Dragon is a German and Italian society. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Dragon 174.101.24.142 20:27, 9 June 2009 (EDT)Dave

"Order of the ..." is not an unusual name. This commonly refers to a symbol (e.g. Order of the Lion). So this is just a coincidence, since the Dragon has been a symbol longer than when this title was invented for the game. --Timenn < talk > 08:15, 10 June 2009 (EDT)

Historically, The Order of the Dragon was organized to defend Eastern Europe from Muslim invasion. There is no similar context in Oblivion; the dragon reference is tied into the game's mythology and the involvement of the Septim line with dragon iconology. If Bethsoft intended for there to be a deeper meaning here, the relationship is extremely tenuous. It's likely they independently made up the name or simply borrowed it because it sounded good. Phelaran 21:15, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

St. Jahn's Wort

St. Jahn's Wort, a plant that can be found growing all across Cyrodil (one place you can find it is outside Tidewater cave near Leyawiin), is actually an herbal supplement used in real life. Spelled St. John's Wort IRL, this herb is actually used as an all natural anti-depressant (in the game it's alchemical properties are resist shock and damage health). The in-game plant and real life one look exactly the same as well. Not a big easter egg, but an easter egg nonetheless! --ThetaGoddess 22:51, 9 June 2009 (EDT)

There are many fungus Oblivion that actually exist. Examples are: Aloe Vera, Tiger Lily, Fly Amanita and so on. It just means that the designers based the fungus on that of the real world. --Timenn < talk > 08:22, 10 June 2009 (EDT)

Indeed. The only one that might qualify as an easter egg is Carrot, with its Night-Eye effect (ie, helping you to see in the dark). Even there, I'm inclined to leave it off. Maybe if it had been the first effect it would be worthy of inclusion. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 09:09, 10 June 2009 (EDT)

Actually, Theta, it's spelled "St. John's Wort" in the game too. Just because an item in the game has the same effect as the RL version does not make it an Easter egg. Weapons damage health and armor protects against damage, both in-game and in RL; is that an Easter egg? The sun also rises in the morning and sets at night. It's not an Easter egg. You can swim in water and run on land. Doesn't make it an Easter egg. Just about every alchemical ingredient in the game has an RL equivalent, and some of them have similar effects to their RL equivalents. Doesn't make them Easter eggs. An Easter egg is an unexpected and seemingly "misplaced" reference to something outside the game. Having an in-game St. John's Wort that looks like RL St. John's Wort or an in-game carrot with the property of improving vision just like an RL carrot is not unexpected or out of place. It's commonplace and realistic. Phelaran 21:25, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

It's only corrected to "St. John's Wort" in the Unofficial Oblivion Patch. If you're playing the original game, it's "St. Jahn's Wort", despite the fact that there's other evidence in the Construction Set indicating that this is almost certainly a typo. I agree fully that this is not an egg, though - as Timenn pointed out, there are numerous plants with the same names as real-world plants. While it could also conceivably be a deliberate play on the accent you tend to hear in Newfoundland, whose capital city is St. John's, there's no evidence to indicate that it's anything more than a typo. —Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 02:08, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

In the construction set, there is an item called the "carrot of seeing". Could this be an easter egg?— Unsigned comment by 70.94.246.121 (talk) on 25 January 2010

No, it can't be an easter egg since it's not present in the game, which is a requirement for anything to be an easter egg. --S'drassa ^•T2M 22:46, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Blackwood

Am I the only person who thinks Blackwood Company sounds similar to Blackwater in real life? --195.195.166.31 13:35, 16 June 2009 (EDT)

While it's possible, I'm not sure if anybody really knew who Blackwater was when the game was first made. You'd have to check when they became popular vs. when the game was released. Even then, I think it'd be hard to prove anything concretely. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 13:52, 16 June 2009 (EDT)

Considering Blackwood has been a Real place in Elder Scrolls lore, I'm sure the name was just added to fit with it. I doubt it's based off anything. — Unsigned comment by Lucky the Cat Guy (talk • contribs) at 01:51 on 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Citation Requirement

The main Easter Eggs page has recently been changed to suggest that citations should be given for each entry on the page. While I understand the reasoning behind this, as there are often some entries either added or suggested based on fairly weak links, this has never been a requirement before, and I really don't think changing it at this late date is warranted. As I said above, "This isn't Wikipedia." Given the two opposed viewpoints on this, I would like to ask for consensus before we either continue with the citation requirement or revert the edits. (And if we revert, I would suggest leaving the existing citations in place, as there's certainly no harm in their being there.) Thanks! --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 19:24, 16 June 2009 (EDT), edited --19:26, 16 June 2009 (EDT)

While I think it's a good idea to include citations where available, I think requiring a citation for every entry is unnecessary. By including the citations we do know, we are making it clear enough to anyone viewing the page that the non-cited entries are based on speculation. There's certainly no need to remove the good suggestions just because we can't prove them. I say we make an effort to cite the things we can, but otherwise we should continue using our best judgment as new suggestions come up. –Eshe^talk 19:34, 16 June 2009 (EDT)

Late response... I agree that not everything needs a citation as many of the items are fairly obvious, but where we're stating something non-obvious as fact (the "Document of Purile Banter" egg for instance) I think it's fair enough to ask for proof. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 11:10, 23 June 2009 (EDT)

Agree with Rpeh. I feel citations should be required, but I understand that they might be hard to find, especially so long after the publication of the game. Some of the eggs listed here do seem to meet a consensus, like the LoTR references in Unfriendly Competition, but a lot of entries in the article are entirely subjective and should be deleted unless a citation can be provided to show that Bethsoft intended for something to be an Easter egg. Phelaran 21:33, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Found verification for The Main Ingredient

The Main Ingredient in Maryland. --Tanranka 04:45, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I've added that to the page. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 07:31, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Black Rock Pirates/ Black Rock Caverns

The Black Rock has been shown in a few episodes of the television show LOST.There is no sense in putting all of the information here because it will just make me look stupid. But for others, it is worth looking into.

````— Unsigned comment by 68.94.14.189 (talk) on 26 June 2009

"Black rock" sounds very common. It's a very common word in combination with a very common (and relevant) adjective. No Easter Egg. --Timenn < talk > 14:07, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

This discussion is present on the Black Rock Caverns talk page as well. Wolok gro-Barok 14:17, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

The discussion is 2 years old, we should keep it here. As for my opinion, due the relative common words of the two, it is no dice for me. --Mr. Oblivion<sup>(T-C)</sup> 16:51, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't suggesting moving this discussion, but just adding a reference. On that page is also a good reason for not counting this as an easter egg. Wolok gro-Barok 17:02, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Am I crazy?

Ok, so on the right side (coming from the exterior entrance) of the IC market district, I found a crate (on top of another crate, against the wall left of the statue) that when you target it comes up "transmogrifier." When you try to activate it it says things like "Boink!" and "Scientific progress goes boink?", which are direct quotes from the Calvin and Hobbes series of cartoons. (see )

Is this in the vanilla, or only in OOO? Please someone look for me. — Unsigned comment by 65.191.155.184 (talk) at 05:29 on 3 July 2009 (UTC)

It's the mod. It is not found in the game itself. --Timenn-<talk> 10:00, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Tribute: Bad Medicine

I believe its safe to say that the Dark Brotherhood mission title "Bad Medicine" (I believe it's the 1st quest given by Ocheeva and assigned with the 'slayer' advancement) was most likely inspired by the Bon Jovi hit "Bad Medicine." Now I am not a huge Bon Jovi fan but i feel its worthy of note, and always was a little "egg" that i noticed and liked in my Oblivion journey. I'm singing it right now as I'm on my way to assasinate Roderick at Fort Sutch. A most fun quest. BalmorasFinest 01:14, 4 July 2009 (UTC) Matthew 4.3.09-17:14

Besides a similar name, there are no similarities between the two. It isn't worth mentioning. –Elliot<sup>(T-C)</sup> 01:21, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Possible Salem's Lot reference

Moved from archive –Eshe<sup>talk</sup> 03:58, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

In the book Night Shift Stephen King includes a series of letters and journal entries that describe the origins of Salem's Lot. The original inhabitants were inbred cultists who used a book called De Vermis Mysteriis or the Mysteries of the Worm which uses bizarre runes that seem to be a combination of latin, celtic, and some other far older language. One of the last entries includes a giant worm coming up from deep within the earth. The people of Hackdirt use the Bible of the Deep Ones which uses daedric runes and they practice cultish sacrifices and all seem to look the same as if they were related. — Unsigned comment by 24.32.97.203 (talk) on July 9, 2009

Sorry bud but the page already shows that the Hackdirt quest bears a much greater resemblance to H.P. Lovecraft's work. Perhaps King was referencing the same story himself. SteVB (82.203.3.6 13:50, 14 July 2009 (UTC))

Actually he was. Stephen King has used parts of Lovecraftian stories to create his own based on his multiple times. — Unsigned comment by 207.199.196.90 (talk) at 04:58 on 17 July 2009

Possible Castlevania Easter Egg

The Dark Brotherhoods last few quests have you hunt down a traitor. The traitor is later revealed to be Mathieu Bellamont. Mathieu's last name; Bellamont sounds an awful lot like Belmont, the last name of Simon and Trevor from the classic castlevania games.

67.70.116.122 05:30, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

That is two generic to even conclude something of the sort. Do a quick search of both names in Google and you can see all of the possible references. It is a normal name, not an easter egg. –Elliot <sup>talk</sup> 05:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

"Women, Wine, and Song" reference

In the "Music" section, it is claimed that Francois Motierre's comment makes a reference to a song off of Umphrey's Mcgee's "Safety in Numbers." However, this CD was actually released on April 4, 2006, 15 days after the release of Oblivion on Xbox 360 and PC. Unless Motierre's comment appears only after patching, this reference must simply be coincidence. Given that it's a relatively common phrase, it's not too surprising a coincidence.— Unsigned comment by 75.27.61.251 (talk) on 2 August 2009

You're very out of date. That comment was removed four days ago. –rpeh<sup>•T•C•E•</sup> 17:34, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually, he's not out of date at all. Seems someone has added it back in. — Unsigned comment by 68.40.162.1 (talk) on 6 August 2009

Ummm... no. The only entry in the music section of the article is about "Blue Suede Shoes"; there is no mention anywhere on the Easter Eggs page of Motierre or Safety in Numbers. If you're still seeing that information, it's because your computer is showing you an out-of-date version of the page -- which isn't our responsibility. Refresh your browser (F5 or ctrl-F5). Furthermore, the information was displayed on this article for less than three hours so it seems particularly unnecessary to still be discussing it more than a week later. We've deleted it from the article and there is nothing more we can do. --Nephele<sup>Talk</sup> 21:24, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

'women, wine and song' is a popular phrase dating at least as far back as the romans and emerging in culture hence any number of times in loads of variations. — Unsigned comment by 62.194.21.246 (talk) on 17 April 2010

nosferatu(movie reference)

In the "Diary of Springheel Jak" Jak refers to himself as Nosferatu on the second page. source:http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Diary_of_Springheel_Jak

nosferatu was the name of an old movie that was suppose to be called Dracula, but the studio could not afford the rights to the novel. so instead of calling the movie Dracula they called it Nosferatu. source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosferatu

The easter egg implies that Bethesda could not afford the rights to the Dracula novel either.

Moldygnome 04:39, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

The second part is a baseless assumption. Just because they are using that name doesn't mean they couldn't acquire the rights. But yes, the name is quite likely a reference, but still not an Easter Egg. --Timenn-<talk> 10:20, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

"Nosferatu" is an old Slavic word for a vampire-like creature. The makers of the film didn't want to pay rights to the Stoker estate, and so had to use alternate names for characters and places. Bethsoft wouldn't have been using the plot or characters of Dracula, they would only have been making reference to the name (which is itself historical and uncopyrightable). In that case, there are no rights to be negotiated. Besides, other references are made to Dracula throughout the game (ex., the "Aluc Cardius" reference in Vilverin, among others). Phelaran 21:46, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Valdemar is a common name?

Hi Timenn: You noted when you removed my dilligently researched work that Valdemar "seems" like a common name. Can you provide some background on why you are of that opinion? It does not "seem" that way to me at all and given the deep significance the name "Valdemar" has on the fantasy/filking/RPG community in America -- it seems far more likely to me that it is an easter egg than it's just a common name. It does not commonly appear in most baby name lists.

The trouble is that there are so many things is could be an Easter Egg for, which rather defeats the object. King of Denmark, King of Sweden, God in Doctor Who, former Art Critic of the Guardian, various Polish politicians... It might warrant a brief mention on the NPC page, but not on this one. –rpeh<sup>•T•C•E•</sup> 13:04, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

No, I had not heard of the name before, but I studied the Wikipedia articles related to the one you've linked to. Noticing that there are numerous people also named that, I made that conclusion.

It might possible that Bethesda was making a reference, but we can't say for sure. In the end it would only have been a reference, not an Easter Egg. --Timenn-<talk> 13:22, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Coming into this after the reference was deleted, I am assuming that the unsigned poster was claiming an Easter egg related to Poe ("The Facts in the Case of M. Valdemar"). Although I can see that someone might draw a parallel between the Ghost of Valdemar (trapped in a ruin, unable to leave) and Poe's Valdemar (trapped by hypnosis in a state between life and death), I'd say it's pretty tenuous. Without a citation to indicate that Bethsoft intended this as an Easter egg, I'd have to say no. There are too many other sources for the name, and the tenuous parallel seems arbitrary and possibly accidental. Phelaran 21:55, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

..Harry Potter.. there are only so many syllables in the world, after all. coincidence my wager. — Unsigned comment by 62.194.21.246 (talk) on 17 April 2010

The Prisoner

i'm not sure if this is an egg or not, or a refernce, or even a coincidence, but a lot of people in the towns say goodbye with the words "be seeing you." in the british tv show The Prisoner (with patrick mcgoohan, made by carlton television i think) people living in 'the village' (a sort of dystopian village prison thing if you havent seen it) say this every time instead of goodbye. they also do a little hand gesture like an OK sign. can anyone that knows both oblivion and the prisoner add any verification to this, or anything else that might back up the reference? — Unsigned comment by 81.105.76.51 (talk) on 1 September 2009

It wouldn't be an Easter Egg, just a reference. And I doubt even that. "Be seeing you" is a quite common expression, I believe. --Timenn-<talk> 19:52, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

It is a common expression, not invented for The Prisoner. Now, if they said "Be seeing you" while giving the OK hand gesture, that would most probably be a strong reference. Not exactly an Easter egg, but I would argue for its inclusion here (for lack of a better venue). Phelaran 22:00, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

The Gray Fox

Has anyone covered the similarities between the Gray Fox and the Dread Pirate Roberts? Both appear as two completely different people without their masks, and if you ask the Stranger (Corvus,the Gray Fox) during dialogue " Who are you?" he ends his statement with "no-one to be trifled with" which is one of Wesley's replies to Buttercup when he is leading her around as the Dread Pirate Roberts. — Unsigned comment by 98.237.131.169 (talk) on 30 September 2009

I doubt such key plot element would just be a reference. And then, it would only have been a reference, not an Easter Egg. --Timenn-<talk> 09:32, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Dread Pirate Roberts was also many different people that carried on his legacy. The gray cowl of nocturnal was passed down from guildmaster and each one inheirited the legacy of the gray fox. i think thats enugh to put it on the page based on some of the things i have read on it. Forkorpl8 01:23, 17 December 2009 (UTC)forkorpl8

Seriously, there are countless stories about alter ego's. It's a classic theme, there's no need to compare the Gray Fox with every possible instance of that same theme. And even then, it's not an Easter Egg, but simply a reference. Please see the Wikipedia article on what an Easter Egg actually is. --Timenn-<talk> 11:33, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Billy Joel- "It's still Rock and Roll to me" MUsic Reference?

When you first speak to Gaspar Stegine in the Arcane University he greets you with the phrase, "Master Spellmaker Gasper Stegine, at your service. New spells. Old spells. Good spells. Bad spells. They're all fun for me." This was very similar to the lyrics, "Hot funk, cool punk, even if it's old junk, It's still rock and roll to me." So do any of you think that this was an easter egg or possibly just a reference. I'm a big fan of Billy Joel and was overjoyed when I realized this possible egg.Littledude 10:15, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

I highly doubt it. There is a similarity, but nothing seems close besides a slight similar wording (and even if they did copy the wording structure, it doesn't mean it is an easter egg. –Elliot <sup>talk</sup> 22:12, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Bands of Kwang Lao

Has anyone freakin' noticed them? No one mentions this anywhere, but they are an obvious reference to Kung Lao, the Mortal Kombat character. Not only does Kwang Lao sound like Kung Lao, but the bands fortify your Hand-to-Hand skill! — Unsigned comment by 208.102.226.119 (talk) on 9 October 2009

I wouldn't call a 6 character similarity obvious. And then it would still be no Easter Egg, just a reference. --Timenn-<talk> 17:42, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Skeleton Key

The skeleton key witch is given by nocturnal can open any lock. In the movie Skeleton Key, it says that in Louisiana mansions each door has a different lock, but the skeleton key can open all of the locks. Also on wikipedia it says this about skeleton keys "A skeleton key (also known as a passkey) is either a key that has been altered in such a way as to bypass the wards placed inside a warded lock or an American term for a lever or "bit" type key. The term "skeleton key", in a more general sense, is also sometimes used in reference to a key or similar object capable of opening any lock regardless of make or type."Forkorpl8 02:46, 18 December 2009 (UTC)forkorpl8

Well if you look at the page you will see that a link to the definition of a skeleton key is already there, especifically on See Also --<sup>MC•</sup> S'drassa <sup>•T2M</sup> 02:53, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Oops. my mistake. Forkorpl8 03:23, 18 December 2009 (UTC)forkorpl8

Hieronymus Lex=Hieronymus Bosch?

Hieronymus "Harry" Bosch[2]: Character in a multitude of crime novels by Michael Connely. His entire life is dedicated to tracking down the most dangerous and elusive of criminals.

Hieronymus Lex: NPC in The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion by Bethesda Softworks. His entire life is dedicated to tracking down the most dangerous and elusive of criminals: the Gray Fox.

Coincidence? Possible, but not probable. It's at least a reference, or inspiration for the name.

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