Oblivion talk:Countess Alessia Caro

Racism

It may be worth adding that she is viciously racist towards Argonians, or at least that she doesn't think much of them. After all, she says how much she doesn't like them, and it is clear that she gets them tortured in the castle. I don't think that mentioning her strong dislike of Argonians would be too much of a spoiler.

Cheers,
Makhno 14:46, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

To the above point, her dislike of Argonians is pretty clear, but for some reason she regularly has dinner with Mahei and Numeen, an Argonian couple. Albeit, a very odd Argonian couple (they apparently can't stand each other and avoid interactions except when visiting or being visited by the Countess, and they are also referred to together as the Derics, as if it were their surname... and I can't find any other instance anywhere of Argonians having surnames). There's just something fishy about this situation. Is there any information available as to what's going on here? It's also worth noting that the Countess, her bodyguard, and both Argonians are listed as being in the Mahei Family faction, so it seems there's a lot of thought behind this behavior. Is the Countess trying to lure them into her basement? Was there going to be more to this, and it got left out of the game? I could make more guesses, but does anyone know the real story behind this oddity? I'm quite curious. Cavanoskus 15:33, 17 August 2008 (EDT)Cavanoskus

"I'm not a racist – two of my best friends are Argonian!" Though the Mahei article notes that they were probably originally meant to be Bretons, by the "Deric" surname. Well, I suppose Kunta Kinte can call himself "Toby Waller"....

My character crusaded against slavery in Morrowind. Death List 3 is disappointingly short in Oblivion, and so far only has the Countess, her advisor, and Lord Drad. Sr123 (talk) 06:30, 25 January 2013 (GMT)

Secret Room

I have been wondering if there is a quest that involves the countess's toutore chamber. I would realy appreaciate it if some one would tell me. — Unsigned comment by 84.57.91.61 (talk) at 16:00 on 10 February 2007‎

The torture chamber is part of the Thieves Guild quest Ahdarji's Heirloom. --Nephele 12:55, 10 February 2007 (EST)

Other than that, it serves no specific purpose. Caro does not visit it during the course of the game. Michael 23:12, 10 March 2007 (EST)

Do wilderness encounters occur if player isnt present?

On a trip to Leyawiin I spotted the Countess, her guard, and a woman on horseback being attacked by a spriggan and an ogre. If I had not intervened they would have all died for sure. Her bodyguard did die, however. Anyone know if her bodyguard respawns? Secondly, if she dies after becoming non-essential, does her body disappear or is it one of those non-disappearing types? Do these attacks on NPCs occur if the player is not around? 209.134.75.234 03:15, 10 May 2008 (EDT)NoobGuy

The bodyguards do respawn after 3 days, like most unnamed NPCs. Looking at the CS, the Countess is not flagged as a quest item, so her corpse will despawn eventually. NPCs will fight each other in the player's absence, evidenced by dead bandits or creatures along main roads, or abandoned Imperial Legion horses. Finally, while I do not know how exactly travel packages work, given the naming conventions, I would assume that she is indeed scripted to travel to Chorrol and back regardless of the player's presence. --Saruuk 05:14, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

Thanks. In the game I came across her bodyguard traveling alone along the road from Leyawiin to Chorrol. I can only assume that she died along the way, as he was injured when i saw him, yet the bodyguard continues to make the journey... 209.134.75.234 03:37, 14 May 2008 (EDT)NoobGuy

Yeah, I just saw her floating dead in the water, apparently killed by a will-o-the-wisp. Ongar the World-Weary 02:52, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Making Characters Essential

I know it is possible to resurrect a character, but is it possible to do this and then set the character as essential so that they wont die continuously? 209.134.75.234 03:37, 14 May 2008 (EDT)NoobGuy

Yes. See this for information on how to do it. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 04:05, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

Inspiration

Could this character be a reference to the infamous Elizabeth Bathory, the Hungarian Countess who murdered hundreads of her female servants, and had secret torture and execution chambers hidden throught her castle. — Unsigned comment by 92.0.118.222 (talk) at 08:48 on 24 November 2008‎

(moved from the article)

• Alessia Caro is possibly a reference to the infamous Elizabeth Bathory, the Hungarian Countess who murdered hundreads of her female servants, and had secret torture and execution chambers hidden underneath her castle.

Not even close. There are several rulers known to have kept secret torture chambers, Bathory murdered young women rather than any Argonians. There's a superficial similarity but it is nowhere close to being worthy of inclusion on here. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 10:41, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Dialogue

During the chaos of the main quest, her chorrol faction kicked in, I remember it gave her and Hlidora Motheral a topic of chorrol and they both said something along the lines of: I know the guards won't let Chorrol be taken like Kvatch.--Arch-Mage Matt 21:01, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually, we were just discussing this issue (a little indirectly) on my talk page. It appears that due to schedule bugs, Alessia will travel to Chorrol fairly frequently and I wouldn't be surprised if that led to things like what you reported above, though I wasn't specifically looking at that when I was researching the problems. —Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 23:55, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

edit

hi i'm just telling you people that i'm deleteing the thing about the best place to assinait her is when she takes her monthely trip if you put it back i won't be offended because i just made my profilebut i'm not new to uesp so you can put it back if yo want(sorry i don't know how to put my user name) — Unsigned comment by GUM!!! (talk • contribs) at 14:59 on 13 March 2010

That is perfectly alright - that note must have been added ages ago and doesn't belong there. Good catch! --Krusty 15:38, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

I've put it back as you can ambush her that way. --ModderElGrande^{Talk contribs} 16:19, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

As I stated in my edit summary, the question isn't whether you can ambush her or not - it's that it's totally irrelevant to the page. We don't want to provide tips on how to kill every NPC. And plus... why kill her????? --SerCenKing ^Talk 16:21, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

My thoughts exactly, hence my reply above. --Krusty 16:24, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

New Countess Alessia Caro bug

Well I'm about 20 hours into a new game, after my last game was destroyed by bugs. I'm in the middle of the quest to recover the stolen ring. It's the 5th day of the month, and Countess Alessia Caro is nowhere to be found. Seems the game has her sitting just outside Chorrol so I take a ride to find out what she's doing. What she's doing is being stuck outside Chorrol's city walls, but inside of the Chorrol city proper. IE she's located outside of chorrol, but not actually on the wilderness map. Same sort of thing you can do if you jump over the walls in Skingrad. Anybody know how to fix this, recover this game (xbox360)? I'm getting pretty sick of restarting every other week.70.24.4.231 21:03, 15 June 2010 (UTC)Blib

Update - I checked all my saves, including one over a month (gametime) earlier. Seems she had been stuck there for ages. I can see her outline with the Detect Life spell. I was just about to restart my game, when I thought that maybe starting the Sanguine quest might reset her position. It did, and I'm very relieved.70.24.4.231 23:59, 15 June 2010 (UTC)Blib

What is this bug about?

I just read through the bugs section and found this new addition to the list. The bug description is not exactly detailed, nor is it explained when the bug occurs. The back-and-forth trips between Chorrol and Leyawiin are already covered, so; what is this about? --Krusty 22:20, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Plain?

moved from text

Ironically, she is often noted as being "beautiful" in-game, despite the fact that she actually looks rather plain; this may be because it's somewhat bad for your health to insult a Countess - especially one with a torture chamber connected to her bedroom, for ease of access.

Should this be allowed? It is more of an opinion than anything. I personally think that she looks like un-wiped inner ring of Satan's Rectum but that's just me. It is just a waste of space 78.148.246.217

I removed it. Seemed pointless and entire of opinion. --DKong27 ^{Talk Cont} 22:22, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

HELP!

The countess's body guard is outside but i can't find her-is she dead? — Unsigned comment by 88.109.30.170 (talk) at 09:53 on 8 July 2011‎

Historical Basis

It seems to me like she was based on Delphine DeLaurie. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphine_LaLaurie — Unsigned comment by 76.196.195.161 (talk) at 04:22 on 10 July 2011‎

Observations on her trip to Chorrol

Annoyed by the messy Sanguine page, I decided to test Alessia Caro's behavior - hoping to find some answers to all the weirdness the quest represents. According to the page, the Countess can disappear for several weeks due to a bug in her Chorrol schedule, leading to several mysterious tips about waiting for an entire in-game week on the quest page. RobinHood70 discovered a lot of interesting stuff here and that inspired me to follow her and check out her Chorrol bug:

• On the 15th of each month, at 6am, Alessia gets out of bed and leaves Leyawiin, accompanied by Hlidara and the bodyguard.
• As soon as she arrives at Chorrol Castle, she turns around and travels back to Leyawiin.
• When she arrives at Castle Leyawiin, she turns around and heads back to Chorrol.

This behavior appears to be some kind of loop that she can't get out of. Followed her back and forth for six in-game days (she was supposed to return to her normal schedule at 6am on the 17th) and she kept going back and forth.

Had a wild idea and stopped following her, traveled to Anvil and slept there for 24 hours. When I returned to Leyawiin, Alessia had resumed her normal schedule and was done traveling back and forth. This discovery opens up the age-old discussion about game mechanics and what happens in all the other zones when the player isn't near. I'm convinced Alessia would have traveled back and forth forever if I haven't spent a night in Anvil. After she had resumed her regular schedule, I started the Sanguine quest and Alessia was inside the castle, wandering around the Castle Hall like she was supposed to - and even sat down at the dinner table at 6pm.

Things to do:

• Trigger the Sanguine bug - probably done by starting the quest while she is wandering back and forth - and see if there'a a simpler solution than waiting for her for an in-game week.
• Check if the bug can affect Ahdarji's Heirloom.
• Get a CSer to check, how come she can be stuck in her own traveling packages.

--Krusty 20:32, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

More observations and theories.

• Seems to me like she will always be present for her dinner party if Ahdarji quest is completed. (?)
• She will remain semi-naked ONLY if you follow her to her room and witness her failed attempt at getting dressed. If she attacks you, she will be dressed after you are released from prison.
• When naked, she will stay at the dinner table forever, even after the quest. Could seriously affect the TG quest.
• 2 game crashes after triggering the "naked"-bug.

I think I solved the whole thing - except how the bug is triggered to last more than two days. If the date is anything but the 15th, 16th and 17th, it can be solved by simply fast-traveling to Castle Chorrol, enter the premises, exit again and return to Castle Leyawiin. The Countess will now be back on track, probably because her Chorrol package was stopped by entering the Castle. This works with and without the Sanguine quest started, meaning I can delete every bad tip on the quest page - when I have tested it some more.

Observations

Okay, here's what I've found so far regarding the loop of the constant Chorrol-Leyawiin trip. Fist off, let's start with the packages that are involved in her monthly trip to Chorrol(This is how they are organized in the loading list):

1. AlessiaCaroTravelHome - Tells her to return to Leyawiin as soon as she steps in any cell that has the name "Chorrol" included. This package also has Must Complete flag. Here's where the whole problem starts (more below).
2. AlessiaCaroSleepChorrol - Tells her to sleep in Castle Chorrol, Private Quarters from midnight to 6am. It also has Must Complete flag.
3. AlessiaCaroFollowCountessChorrol - Tells her to wander around the Private Quarters and near Arriana Valga from 6am to midnight. Also has Must Reach Location flag.
4. AlessiaCaroTravelToChorrol - Tells her to go to Chorrol every 15th of each month, starting the package at 6am with no duration specified. Also has Must Complete flag.

Now, the problem lies within the first three packages. #2 and #3 in particular have a specified condition that as long as the script variable DaysInChorrol isn't 0, they must continue to be executed, because both have "Must" flags. Now, let's take a look at the chunk of the script that defines how that variable is handled, shall we:

Begin OnPackageChange AlessiaCaroTravelToChorrol
       set DaysInChorrol 2 
End

Begin OnPackageChange AlessiaCaroSleepChorrol
       set DaysInChorrol - 1
End

The first bit indicates that as soon as Alessia switches to the package AlessiaCaroTravelToChorrol, the count of the variable DaysInChorrol is set to 2. The second bit specifies that once Alessia switches to the package AlessiaCaroSleepChorrol, the count is reduced by 1, meaning that she would need to sleep twice in Chorrol in order for the count to reach 0 and thus stopping her from continuing doing packages 2 and 3.

However, since the AlessiaCaroTravelHome package is first on the list and has a rather simple condition to activate, it will kick in first. This will cause her to always return to Leyawiin as soon as she steps in any cell with "Chorrol" on its name. However, packages 2 and 3 also have a "Must" condition and thus as soon as the specified time strikes in, she will try to complete it again obligating her to return to Chorrol, but as soon as she gets there package 1 strikes again. Since the count of DaysInChorrol never reaches 0, she will always try to complete packages 2 and 3 but will fail due to the nasty package #1 getting in the way, thus cursing her to be stuck in an endless cicle of travels between Chorrol and Leyawiin. At least that's my two cents, hope this helps :) --S'drassa ^•T2M 19:22, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Wow, thanks a lot S'drassa! I'll take a closer look when I get back from work later today. It is quite possible that I have some additional questions, so don't close the CS yet. ;) --Krusty 07:14, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

I've also watched several trips back from Chorrol to Leyawiin, and I have one more observation. If she gets severely attacked (she or her horse taking substantial damage?) while riding back to Leyawiin, then she immediately abandons her horse and starts walking back to the safety of Chorrol. So it's not just bugs or loops that make her turn around. Bewing (talk) 05:37, 21 January 2013 (GMT)

UOP fix?

"Countess Alessia Caro's habit of dropping in to see Argonian couple Mahei and Numeen despite her racist dislike of beast races could be a mistake with the races: due to several rumors referring to them as “the Derics” it is likely that Mahei and Numeen were originally Bretons. Almost no Argonians have a surname, and "Deric" is similar to other Breton family names (Liric, Maric, Meric, Aric, Fransoric and Jenseric can be found in Morrowind and Oblivion)."

I checked all of the changes in the UOP relating to the Countess & Mahei, and I can't find any change that matches this note. Was this altered by the UOP, and I just missed it? Without evidence to back it up, it just seems like speculation. Xyzzy (talk) 11:50, 3 September 2012 (EDT)

Confirming her demise...

I am stuck on the Sanguine quest with her the only guest not arriving and have searched near Leyawin and Chorrol on the 15th and 17th of the month to no avail. I assume she is dead but is there any way to confirm this on the 360?

Her body guard Hlidara Mothril is permanently in the little room off the office in the private quarters and no matter what time of day or month and always attacks me on sight despite her disposition being 90+. Does this mean the Countess is dead or even died at my hands? Syko Conor (talk) 13:49, 24 May 2013 (GMT)

Regarding observations listed above and an additional observation...

It has been suggested that she will remain undressed ONLY IF followed to her room; however, I managed to glitch her wardrobe without ever leaving the dining room. I found that if she sits back to the table undressed, she will remain undressed. If she actually goes back to her room and returns dressed, she will dress normally thereafter. In my play-tests, I never followed her to her room; I always remained in the dining hall.

Additional Observation during my run of the Daedric Quests...

Initially, I had no reason to suspect my Countess was undressed, as I never followed her to her room. (I review quest glitches before any quests to save myself possible inconvenience, so I never did the thing that was the suspected cause of this glitch.) Also, I waited to do Hircine's quest for last of the Daedric quests as I was loathe to kill the Unicorn. As it turns out, I didn't have to.

Imagine my astonishment several quests later to find her in her unmentionables running around with her Body Guard and Hildara in Harcane Grove; and there on the ground a dead Unicorn! I wasn't there when the Unicorn died, but I suppose it's possible that they killed the Unicorn during one of their many trips? I am over 500 days into the game, afterall.

I decided to reload a previous game so I could unglitch her as I was not interested in having an improperly attired Countess running around my countryside (nor did I want to use the console to fix the glitch). The Unicorn was already dead at that point, tho the Unicorn corpse did not vanish (so the Hircine quest was not actually broken). I was content with regression to this point, as it saved me from killing the Unicorn myself, lol.

Thanks for letting me add my note. Cheers and Happy Gaming. ~Nom — Unsigned comment by 76.170.0.60 (talk) at 19:57 on 21 July 2013

keeping her alive after she's non essential

Could one say ... reverse pickpocket perma bound armor with drain fatigue enchantment on her so she collapses and her remain there alive but unable to do her long trips across the map and her stay that way... or would her inventory eventually reset and her continue to her doomed trip later. Furthermore could you command humanoid her until she was back at your place then drain her fatigue and keep her in your house?

She likes to fight people

Specifically this happens if I lockpick my way into the Private Quarters of Leyawiin Castle after dark (but perhaps before they go to sleep). When I do this, I will often find her and others alarmed, and she will sometimes start fighting someone. I have seen her chase both Hildara and the Count out of the Private Quarters, and punch them to death in some part of the castle! — Unsigned comment by 182.19.163.2 (talk) at 15:05 on 27 February 2022 (UTC)