Lore talk:Vampire

Where exactly is the "Lore"?

For a Lore article, there isn't a lot of "lore" about vampires. It is an important part of the games, and it surprises me how much little info we have. What about the clans of Morrowind, the caves of vampires in Oblivion? Is there any info on vampires in the older games? What about the info listed in Immortal Blood, which provides vampire info across Tamriel? (Although, the accuracy of it might be debated.) Is there any other books that mention vampires? How they are not considered undead creatures, but people inflicted with a disease? There must be more info about vampires then what is on this page; it's just a matter of collecting info. -- Jplatinum16 16:35, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Molag Bal

Show it not be mentioned there was a parent zero the first person to be infected? For on Molag Bal's lore page it is noted he may have forcibly conceived the first vampire. — Unsigned comment by 24.177.147.128 (talk) on 1 March 2010

Well the Molag Bal article currently doesn't have any references so I'm not too sure about taking info from it. If you can find a proper reference for this conjecture, then by all means add it to the article. --SerCenKing ^Talk 22:13, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Cyrodiilic Tribe

Who ever said that the Vampires in Cyrodiil were all in the same tribe? Considering that they attack you if you are one, why don't we assume that they all are on their own, or seperate, smaller tribes (For each ruin or cave)? --Arch-Mage Matt^Talk 20:34, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

The only references to Cyrodiilic vampires (lore-wise anyway) are the Manifesto Cyrodiil Vampyrum and Immortal Blood. They both indicate a large clan of vampires, whose actual creation predates them coming to Cyrodiil. In-game, it doesn't suggest this at all, but Oblivion isn't so much about the surrounding lore and world, but more about character roleplaying and development. These two books are the only lore we have for Cyrodiil, so we have to make due and go by the books. -- Jplatinum16 23:28, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

they mostly likely attack you if you're one because A: they weren't the ones that turned you or gave permission, so you're basically an outsider (like the clanless ones in morrowind, same breed to a clan but still enemies)B: most vampires or some at least hate themselves for what they have become and refuse to feed which results in them becoming insane and feral with hunger. 86.186.211.104 14:09, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

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Cure

Is it true that you can cure yourself from vamprism before it takes it's full effect by going to and praying at a chapel altar??? I need to know otherwise i don't wanna face down a unpreventable diasease. — Unsigned comment by Jamz slack (talk • contribs) on 1 April 2011

If you contract Porphyric Hemophilia then you can cure yourself at a chapel altar. But you cannot cure yourself at a chapel altar if you have the actual vampirism effect. mxk101^Talk 21:57, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

So how long do you get before you become a full vampire — Unsigned comment by Jamz slack (talk • contribs) at 03:52 on April 2, 2011

I would recommend actually reading the articles associated with the topic you want to know about. Lore space is meant for generic information, not game-related. For example, do you mean Morrowind:Vampires, Oblivion:Vampirism, Daggerfall:Vampirism, ... --DKong27 ^{Talk Cont} 01:45, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Skyrim Vampires and Cyrodiilic Vampires

It has come to my attention that people refer to the ingame Skyrim vampires as Volkihar and keep changing my edits. While true, high level vampires are named as such, we must remember that the Cyrodiilic Clan is the only clan able to blend in society if well-fed and walk in the sun as by pact with Clavicus Vile. They also prefer to feed on sleeping people as well. While it could be evolved since the disease itself has been named differently, we must remember Movarth Piquine was bitten by a Cyrodiilic vampire. And he is in Skyrim. Which leads me to believe they have migrated to Skyrim and evolved in the two hundred years.

Lore-wise, the Cyrodiilic Clan took Cyrodiil as their stronhold in the Third Era. This alone suggests that they are originally were not from there. They took over by ousting all other competitors and thus infiltrated politics and nobility, as the case of Janus Hassildor, Jakben Earl of Imbel and Lord Lovidicus, all vampires masquerading as mortals. Let me also establish that it is mentioned "By the virtue of Imperial structure and bureaucracy, Cyrodiil has become our stronghold in the third era, and we suffer no savage rivals within our boundries."'. Since it is the Fourth Era and the Thalmor has taken over, it is very possible that they have took Skyrim as their next stronghold, considering the Empire's influence is there with the war with the Stormcloaks.

Now, the Cyrodiilic vampires views others as savages. Sybille Stentor, like Janus Hassildor, uses the guise as wizard to conceal the identity of vampire. And like Hassildor, she sends you on an errand to destroy a group of vampires that she considers uncivilized. While there are some "enlightened" vampires, I must say the likelyhood of the Order vampires in Skyrim is increased as we see no further proof that extremely high leveled vampires in game are called "The Volkihar."— Unsigned comment by Order Vampyrum (talk • contribs) at 20:46 on 12 February 2012 (UTC)

High level vampires are called volkihars. Volkihar vampire and Volkihar Master Vampire. 86.179.20.57 20:07, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Irrelevant. Lower level vampires are not called the Volkihar. Perhaps you should reread what I posted before jumping to abrupt conclusions. — Unsigned comment by Order Vampyrum (talk • contribs) at 16:42 on 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Reproduction

does anyone know if vampirism can be passed on to offspring? i know the gray prince in TES IV had a father for a vampire, but was he a vampire because of it?98.80.105.35 23:38, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

The Gray Prince was what's known in mythology as a dhampir, or a half vampire. Since he seems to be the only known case of vampire offspring in TES, I would assume that it could be passed on. The Gray Prince also inherited some genetic, vampiric traits from his father, such as abnormal strength, speed, and strikingly pale skin. Kitkat ^{•Talk•Contrib•E-mail} 23:46, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but he wasn't actually a vampire (long teeth, red eyes, hunger for blood and all that) ~ Dwarfmp 23:49, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Volkihar

The information in the Skyrim section is wrong or at least misguided. There is no proof or indication that the Dawnguard vampires led by Harkon are Volkihar. The one and only reference to Volkihar in the entire DLC is the name of the castle. There is no dialogue, no documents, nothing else. This, plus the wildly different behaviour and powers of the Dawnguard clan as opposed to the Volkihar as described in lore makes it seem more plausible that Harkon's vampires are a different strain. A possible name for them could be Purebloods. There are two known clans of vampires in Skyrim, The Order and Volkihar. We know the order is present even though unnamed, as Morvath is known to have been turned by one of them. (Immortal Blood.) Secondly, there are vampires the game specifically names Volkihar and these have been present in the game since before Dawnguard. The DLC only added vampire armour and random attacks. There is nothing linking these Volkihar attacks to Harkon.

Calling the DLC vampires Volkihar is premature at the least. --Merari (talk) 14:54, 4 October 2012 (GMT)

Well this has been two months and no reply. One would imagine that if one were to call the validity of an article in question the source would do anything aside from ignoring the request.

Please, the question is simple.

Given that there is no lore definity on the identity of this group, is there data found in the construction set, such as the name of their faction, that indicates they are intended to be Volkihar? --Merari (talk) 08:53, 1 December 2012 (GMT)

What i think is that the description of volkihar vampire is not true as either the base game vampire and vampire lord doesn't fit it. It may be due to the fact that it will be troublesome for bethesda to allow npc and more over pc to process the ability to travel within the ice. And i think of a explanation for that as the describtion came from the book Immortal blood which is written by a volkihar vampire, he may just created that line to make themselves more scary. As from the quest Culling the beast, base game vampires are being refer by the clan as thin-blood kin, i would rather support the idea that the base game vampire is of the same bloodline as lord harkon. Beside that, expect for the ability for transforming into vampire lord, there is no difference between the clan and base game vampire. And lord harkon refer those who have been turn by him as "half-breed" and i remember that from this wiki i have read an article which state that as vampirism spread from lord harkon to vampire lord and to other vampire lord, it became less pure and eventually became diseases(I can't prove this article exist, because i forgot which page it belong to). But your theory did have some supporting fact. As i notice vampire bloodline can be created by powerful wizard and the story Opusculus Lamae Bal ta Mezzamortie said that Lamae Beolfag is one of the origin of vampirism and there may be other people who made a pact with molag bal.(Vvardfell (talk) 12:15, 1 December 2012 (GMT))

Dawnguards adds several NPCs named Volkihar Vampire and Volkihar Master Vampire but most other references to "Volkihar" are indeed just to the place. --Alfwyn (talk) 16:17, 1 December 2012 (GMT)

As for CK evidence, most of the NPCs living in the castle use an outfit with names like DLC1VolkiharVampireOutfit*, for example Orthjolf or Salonia Caelia. --Alfwyn (talk) 16:37, 1 December 2012 (GMT)

Volkhair vampires were already in the base game. So if these are the same "thin-bloods", than Harkon is Volkhair. The book Immortal Blood states that the Volkhair is the most powerful vampire clan in Skyrim. The Dawnguard would hunt them. Who is the Dawnguard hunting? Evidence suggest that these are the Volkhair, as stated above; to go any further borderlines speculation. That can go in the forums.--Br3admax (talk) 16:40, 1 December 2012 (GMT)

Thralls

I recently did the Morthal Vampires quest in Skyrim, where a master vampire is trying to enthrall the town. That got me thinking about something I've thought about for a while; is there a limit to the number of thralls a vampire can create? That particular vampire had around five in the cave where you fought him. — Unsigned comment by 199.218.107.4 (talk) at 14:54 on 14 October 2015 (UTC)

No, I wouldn't think so if that quest is anything to go on. —Legoless (talk) 19:43, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Characteristics

 
Blood may not be needed to stay "alive", but doing without it 
can cause a vampire to become extremely weak and rabid, though 
some types of vampires will instead become stronger and more vampiric. 

I'm not sure if I understand this correctly. From how I understand it a vampire can theoretically live entirely without blood as long as their willpower is strong enough to resist the urge to go feral (which it eventually isn't). The part about "doing without it can cause a vampire to become extremely weak and rabid" seems to be based entirely on reference [10|Lore:Vampire#cite_note-AAD-10], where the guy basically complains about his non-bleeding wounds not healing up as long as he doesn't feed, while the "though some types of vampires will instead become stronger" makes it sound as if that was the exception rather than the rule.

Is that intended? Because I just found myself in a lengthy discussion where people solely quoted that sentence as to how using the Vampire: The Masquerade system was totally appropriate here. Manavortex (talk) 12:36, 18 July 2017 (UTC)manavortex

Vampirism works differently in different games. This has been supported by different illnesses leading to the vampirism in the different games. The lore article tries to incorporate all these different strains of vampirism, even if the symptoms might be different, and sometimes direct opposite of each other. —MortenOSlash (talk) 18:14, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

While that is undoubtedly correct, maybe an own section about vampires and blood/sunlight would be a good idea? I keep seeing TES vampires played like Anne Rice vampires (not to mention that they usually have more edge than a D20) Manavortex (talk) 08:30, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Where do vampires go when they die?

I've noticed a particular lack of understanding as to where vampires spend their afterlife, if they have one.I was under the assumption that a vampire would be claimed at Coldharbor, but the more info I gather the more it seems like a deceased vampire is reunited with their soul and sent to Aetherius or the Daedric realm of their master (Shivering Isles, Evergloam, Ashpit, Sovngarde, etc.) Does anyone know of any IG or OOG books that talk about this subject, or any sort of dialog that I've been overlooking? I feel like it would be important to the article, considering the other known form of Daedric soul "corruption", Lycanthropy, instantly causes a person's soul to be claimed by Hircine upon death (or just the Lycanthrope Companions, depending on the source.) 74.139.10.90 08:33, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

It may not apply to all vampires, but in ESO many of them have ended up in The Orchard (and some other places) in Coldharbour. It certainly doesn't seem like it is because they worshipped Molag Bal, as they're willing to help you fight him if you assist them, but rather simply because they're vampires. Odd that no one has thought to make mention of that here or on the Coldharbour page. Aran Anumarile Autaracu Alatasel (talk) 09:27, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

The only exceptions to this law I can think of are the player characters, like the Champion of Cyrodiil that, depending on the actions of the player, becomes a Daedra (then again, I think vampires are already semi-daedric beings), and the Last Dragonborn, who, based on ingame dialog may wind up becoming a shadow within the Evergloam (Thieves Guild) or find themself taken to Sovngard (Dialog given by Tsun during following Dragonslayer.) Then again, the LD had the soul of a dragon, meaning they could have been an exception to being claimed at Coldharbor...but then agaaaaaaain there is the Daedric Titan from ESO that was a dragon turned vestige by will of Molag Bal. Whatever you or someone else decides to add to the article I'm entirely OK with. I'm just an IP that's really, really, really, genuinely bad at formatting, so I'd rather not touch any articles with my own hands. 74.139.10.90 21:23, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

This is turning into something that should have been taken to our excellent forums. (Actually it was more or less even from the first contribution even if Aran tried to get it a bit on track.)

Nothing should be added on speculation alone. As we really have nothing except a few contradictory deductions, it is better left out until we know.

Using the example of player characters is totally irrelevant, as there is open ending stories, and both all and non of the endings may apply until such time Bethesda decides what is canon. Anyway, it is totally lack of any logic to even consider things like "vampires go to Evergloam, because the Last Dragonborn was a Nightingale and Nightingales go to Evergloam".

For all we know nothing special happens to the majority of vampires. We do not know if those mentioned in the games so far are representative or even why they end up where they go. Take the rest of the speculations to the forums. —MortenOSlash (talk) 06:13, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Revision As of January 17th, 2021: Summary of Changes

Edit summaries aren't long enough for me to communicate why I've made all of the changes I've made today. Small alterations include grammar, changes to wording, spelling, spaces after references and between references.

First large contribution: Image removal. Why remove so many? They were cluttering the page. Having a lot of images is a good thing, but there's an art to image placement. If we have too many in one place, don't spread them out well, or just don't place them in a logical, orderly manner, a page can become cluttered. Especially for mobile users. Cluttered pages make it harder to parse written information, harder to focus. Cluttered pages are also unsightly to look at. I've removed the gamespace depictions of Lady Thorn and Blood Scions.

On Lady Thorn: We have a cropped pre-release image that's doing her justice right there in the Vampire Lord section.

On Blood Scions: people in Discord complained about in-game Blood Scions being ugly, which I understand completely. People like the promotional image better, and there's no point in having three images of the same thing if two of those images are 1. disliked because the in-game model is ugly, (which I would usually dispute by saying gamespace images are preferred in lore, because they are preferred in lore. However, my sense of aesthetic has beaten out my sense of guidelines on this one) and 2. they're just going to clutter up the gallery even worse. That's one reason I've taken a vacuum to the gallery: it's also too cluttered.

Images moved to the Gallery: Harrowfiend, Bloodfiend.

Image removals: Vampires dream images, Oblivion vampire images in the Cyrodiil section, Vampire with Nirnroot from the High Rock and Hammerfell section. The Vampire dream images are irrelevant to lore. Yes, vampires have dreams. No, we don't need to show the dream. The image itself isn't representative of most of the vampire dreams we've seen in other Elder Scrolls games, and it doesn't make sense out of context. To our readers, it just looks like we put a picture of a doe-eyed woman on the page amidst pictures of vampires ripping people's throats out. They are more suited to Daggerfall:Vampirism. The Nirnroot Daggerfall vampire had no relevance; we already have an image of a vampire from Daggerfall on the page. The Oblivion images in the Cyrodiil section were redundant (vampire in green armor: already have a basic Oblivion vampire in the gallery; Oblivion feeding: already have an image of a Skyrim vampire feeding in the exact same position, with the exact same elements at the exact same angle, which are a mortal laying in bed as a vampire leans over to feed.) Furthermore, the images placed in the Cyrodiil section didn't have anything to do with the Cyrodiil Order, which we go on and on about in that section.

On the High Rock section images in general: Three images in that particular arrangement was unpleasant to look at

"Clavicus Vile is worshiped by members of the Cyrodiilic clan, some vampires found within Skyrim also worship Clavicus Vile."

This statement, while technically true, is like saying "there are people in Japan who worship the Christian god." All Daedric Princes are technically worshipped everywhere. Vile is not specifically worshipped as a primary patron of any clans in Skyrim. The vampires we see at Vile's shrine in Skyrim are not a coven; they are his existing cult, having been transformed into vampires. They ask him to remove their condition because they don't want to be this way; ergo, they are not a vampire clan that worships Clavicus Vile. It would be disingenuous for us to include the Vile worshipers from Clavicus Vile's quest in Skyrim as "vampires who worship Clavicus Vile" in the context of the paragraph this information was included in.

"...they also gird their loins and bind their spines in leather as Sangiin does before tempestuous night"

The only reason this line is being removed is because it's ripping metaphor and poetry straight from the Hollowfang Crafting Motif without bothering to interpret it, or at least put it into Normal People Words for our readers. Those words mean nothing to the average reader especially so out of context. What does it have to do with their worship of Sangiin? What are they doing, and how does it honor him? The way it was written before my revision doesn't mention that this line has to do with armor styles. When we add things to lore pages, we need to consider how substantial they are: that is to say, "does this add anything of substance? What does this tell our reader, and why is it important?" Little facts are fine, but if we don't even understand what we're adding (or if we don't provide context for the addition), our information is useless.

I didn't get to change as much as I wanted to because it is very late, thank you for coming to my TED talk, have a wonderful evening. If you disagree with any changes, feel free to make changes to my changes so we can change the world together. -MolagBallet (talk) 05:25, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Generally I think we should prioritise using wiki images over pre-released/promotional render content. —⁠Legoless (talk) 09:58, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Lady Thorn

Promotional renders have the potential to look pretty awesome though, and can convey things that are limited from gameplay. Take for example Lady Thorn's vampire lord image. She showcases Vampire Lord's ability to fly, she looks fabulous, and she occupies the majority of the image space.Zebendal (talk) 10:16, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that Lady Thorn image is artwork, not a 3D render. I'm moreso thinking of that Blood Scion image; ugly or not, we have perfectly good screenshots that more closely align with wiki image standards. —⁠Legoless (talk) 10:35, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Gargoyle UOL

I have added a UOL reference, Loremaster's Episode of ESO-RP ZOS Interview, as it was brought to my attention that we had no information about Majorn's gargoyle form on the page. A screenshot of this form was already added to the gallery so I feel like it's important to add Schick's explanation for why Majorn has this ability—particularly when a lot of people apparently think it's just a discount Vampire Lord or an incident of asset reuse. —⁠Legoless (talk) 09:35, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Since I was the one who told him about this, and informed him, this is perfectly fine with me and he did a good job with it.TheVampKnight (talk) 09:45, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Loranna Vampires

I brought back the removed Loranna RP bloodlines to notes. I believe their presence here does more good than harm. Tyrvarion (talk) 14:28, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Vicente Valtieri

The picture next to Cyrodilic vampires uses a picture of Vicente Valtieri. This however is a case of gameplay and story segregation as while Vicente shares all the characteristics of every other vampire in the game, he is more likely of one of the Morrowind bloodlines as he states he was stricken with vampirism in the Ashlands. A more suitable picture would be one of the other prominent vampires such as Janus Hassildor.

As a side note he shares this irregularity with Movarth Piquine in Skyrim who shares all the traits of a Skyrim vampire but was infected by a Cyrodilic vampire. 81.105.210.188 14:53, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

You are entirely correct. I've moved the image back down into the gallery. —⁠Legoless (talk) 16:36, 26 April 2023 (UTC)