User talk:TheRealLurlock/2013 02

Gem Maps

Hiya TRL! I just wanted to say that these maps you've been adding for the unusual gems are pretty neat. Good idea! :) — ABCface^◥ 20:39, 1 February 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, I'm trying to think what else they could be used for - The Litany of Larceny items come to mind, possibly pieces of Mehrunes' Razor (though some of those are carried by NPCs), and other unique treasures that are found in fixed, non-radiant locations. We are kind of lacking in general interior map images for Skyrim - that could be a whole new project at some point... TheRealLurlock (talk) 20:45, 1 February 2013 (GMT)

When Dragonborn comes out for PC, it could be really useful to have them for the Pain in the Necklace quest, for all the East Empire Company Strongboxes (there are 33). Of course, many of those are in exterior locations, so that may be more difficult to do since the local maps wouldn't be as clearly defined. Can't think of any other uses off the top of my head, but either way, I like the way you've done them for No Stone Unturned. Neat idea. — ABCface^◥ 20:58, 1 February 2013 (GMT)

Sounds like another good place for this sort of thing - though the exterior locations would indeed be complicated. Possibly I could come up with some other format for those - maybe just show a circle of map around the location. We'll see in a few days, I guess. I know very little about DB since I don't have an Xbox. Also made me think of the various treasure map locations, which would have the same problem. Also other unique places like Yisra's corpse might be appropriate for that. (Wouldn't do this with most random corpses, but it's relevant given the free (and respawning) Flame Cloak tome near her.) TheRealLurlock (talk) 00:37, 2 February 2013 (GMT)

Maven (grand)mother

I'm contacting you about this since you changed the info on the articles. I just want to point out that, as I've stated on the talk page, that there is more evidence of her being mother of all three. I think more discussion regarding this necessary ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 15:30, 7 February 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, unfortunately, there will always be a question here, because they were inconsistent with the way they set things up. I'm going through the relationships now, and finding other things that are screwed up, like Clinton Lylvieve is set up as Azzada Lylvieve's father instead of his son. That one is clearly an error, but the Black-Briar situation is less clear. I think people might refer to her as "Mother" because she is the matriarch of the family, rather than their literal mother, but I can't back that up. Certainly Hemming appears to be more than just a little bit older than Ingun and Sibbi, and his claim that they are his children rather than his siblings can't be ignored. I'm thinking now that given conflicting information, we need to present both possibilities, along with the evidence on both sides, rather than claiming one or the other to be correct. My edits at least made note of the fact that there was a discrepancy, which was not shown on the previous versions of the page. We could do a partial revert to the older arrangement, but leave the Bug notes stating that there is some confusion over this, which is pretty much all we can do given the conflicting evidence. TheRealLurlock (talk) 19:52, 7 February 2013 (GMT)

I suppose presenting both is a good idea, I just didn't like the thought she was the grandmother. Most evidence for her being grandmother in the game is when she's the jarl, and you'll only get to see that half of the time, and even that's if you actually compete in the civil war. It wasn't until I saw it here that I knew of this "bug" ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 01:28, 9 February 2013 (GMT)

Up arrow

Hey. I removed the line about hitting the up arrow, I really don't think it is needed in that section. Perhaps it can be added as a general console note? It just seems strange to hang that note in a specific function, because it doesn't ONLY apply to that function, you know? Jeancey (talk) 20:47, 12 February 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, only that's the only case where you can't see what you're typing, so it's a bit more relevant. Also, in the case of other console commands, you might do a bunch of them in a row, and the up arrow gives you the most recently typed one (or others if you hit it repeatedly). But when using "tm", it's very unlikely you'd be entering in other codes blindly, so "tm" is probably the most recent one. Okay, so it saves one keystroke, although I often use it multiple times in a session (if I'm taking screenshots), so I just toggle it back and forth with the up arrow. I guess it's nothing revolutionary, but it's worthy of note at least somewhere... TheRealLurlock (talk) 23:10, 12 February 2013 (GMT)

Lore Places Project

Hi there, I was considering adding my name to the LPP, and was wondering whether the status of the project is still as mentioned in the How You Can Help section, or whether, one year into the project, any of those things had been completed, or any other objectives had surfaced. Thanks, Enodoc (talk) 00:07, 14 February 2013 (GMT)

Hope you don't mind me replying, Lurlock. I've just added to the LPP page, the hidden categories that are relevant to the LPP. You might find something in there that needs some attention, Endoc. – Daric↝talk 02:15, 14 February 2013 (GMT)

There have been no changes. The goals are basically the same. —Legoless (talk) 02:30, 14 February 2013 (GMT)

OK thanks. And thanks for adding those links, Daric. --Enodoc (talk) 13:44, 15 February 2013 (GMT)

I am not finding any shortage of lore pages that could still use more information, even one page which was still written from a player point of view. However, for some reason, I was removed from the category of users working on the project and the ribbon no longer appears on my page. On further investigation, I found the entire associated category blank - nobody listed at all, with no recent edits. Should that ever even happen? LordXenophon (talk) 00:58, 29 April 2013 (GMT)

Nothing to do with me. I think RobinHood70 was doing something with the {{Ribbon}} template, which may have messed up the category. Seems to be fixed now. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 12:39, 29 April 2013 (GMT)

I haven't touched the template in over a week. It looks fine when I look on your page, LordXenophon, though I see what you mean about the category. I just forced your page to update, and now you appear in the category, but nobody else. I've done a null edit on the Ribbon template in the hopes that that'll update the category (and any other categories in the same position) properly. I'll keep an eye on it. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 18:44, 29 April 2013 (GMT)

Wooden Mask

Hey TRL. Since you added this note, might you be able to provide some input here? —Legoless (talk) 20:53, 16 February 2013 (GMT)

Emperor Parasol Moss

There is definitely moss on the Emperor Parasols in morrowind, here is an image of a morrowind parasol with moss hanging from it :) Jeancey (talk) 19:23, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

What I'm trying to make clear is that "Emperor Parasol Moss" was not an ingredient which ever appeared in Morrowind, as the previous version of that entry implied. Maybe it exists as a visual effect, but it cannot be harvested, so this statement is misleading. TheRealLurlock (talk) 19:25, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

There are two separate lore pages. This page is about the actual moss, not the ingredient. Under the alchemy section the ingredient is listed. The ingredient didn't exist in morrowind, but the plant did. Jeancey (talk) 19:27, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

I added "Moss hanging from the Emperor Parasols on Solsthiem has acute alchemical properties." which links to the alchemy lore page about the moss. Hopefully that's an acceptable compromise. Jeancey (talk) 19:33, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

The entry doesn't imply that. It simply states that Emperor Parasols are native to Morrowind, and that the moss can be found growing on them. Two separate statements. There's no need to bring up the odd, game-specific alchemical properties. We don't say that only ebony "found in the mines of Vvardenfell" can be used in alchemy, so there's no reason to assume that only the moss on Solstheim is used in alchemy. —Legoless (talk) 19:43, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

The difference is one of them is a retcon - the term "Emperor Parasol Moss" did not exist until the Dragonborn expansion came out. The fact that there happens to be moss in Morrowind that looks similar is a side-note - we don't know for a fact that this is the same kind of moss. (It's clearly different from, say Hanging Moss, so we know there's more than one species of moss in the world.) Claiming that the nameless moss found growing on nameless mushrooms in Morrowind is the same as that added in Dragonborn is pure speculation. They look similar, yes, but there's no lore to establish that they are indeed the same thing. TheRealLurlock (talk) 19:49, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

They aren't nameless. They ARE Emperor Parasols. Here is concept art from Morrowind with Emperor Parasol written in the bottom corner, Vivec's Sermons 2 and 26 also mention them by name. Jeancey (talk) 19:54, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

Okay, the mushrooms aren't nameless, but the moss is. Point still stands. TheRealLurlock (talk) 19:55, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

(←) It isn't Emperor Parasol Moss, it is Emperor Parasol Moss, i.e. the moss that grows on Emperor Parasol mushrooms. It is the same thing as saying Skin Cancer. It is cancer of the skin. There are many types of skin cancer, but it is all called skin cancer. We don't have a specific name for the moss, just like hanging moss. Hanging moss is moss that hangs, not any sort of specific species name. Jeancey (talk) 19:58, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

Except in Skyrim, Hanging Moss IS a specific species name. At least, it's different enough that it has entirely different alchemical properties from Emperor Parasol Moss. It hangs from all kinds of things - stone, trees, dirt, etc. But we don't call it "Stone Moss" or "Tree Moss". It's all the same. What makes moss hanging from Emperor Parasols different from other Hanging Moss? We don't know. Also, it's worth noting that if you look around Morrowind, you'll see that not all the giant mushrooms look the same - there may be more than one species of giant mushroom, only one of which is actually Emperor Parasol. The fact is that calling anything seen in Morrowind "Emperor Parasol Moss" is conjecture. We don't know that it's the same thing unless they say so. Otherwise you're just making stuff up. Anyhow, I've spent way too much time arguing about moss. Put whatever you want on the page, just try and keep it to the facts we can reliably confirm and avoid conjecture. TheRealLurlock (talk) 20:25, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

All the mushrooms in Morrowind are named as Emperor Parasols in the construction set. Jeancey (talk) 20:27, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

Answer Question

Hey Lurlock just wanted to let you know I answered your question about the map on that Pain in the Necklace talk page. Lord Eydvar ^{Talk|Contribs} 02:24, 19 February 2013 (GMT)

Three missing argonians

Hey! The three missing argonians are dead slaves located in Sjobal. I'm in the process of adding redirects for them now, so they should all work. Also, wind-in-his-hair is a shipmaster, but I'm not sure where yet (I haven't gotten that far). If you need any help with lore names locations on any of the pages, let me know, because I added many of them :) Jeancey (talk) 15:43, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, the only reference on the site to "Wind-In-His-Hair" currently is on Lore:Argonian Names. I'm thinking it's either a typo or a major oversight. It is kind of weird for an Argonian name - Argonians don't have hair, per se. Anyhow, that's one benefit of what I'm doing with these pages - it makes it easier to find mistakes. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 15:46, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

I agree. Wind-In-His-Hair is in the game data, but it looks like he never appears in the game, at least not that I can find. Not sure what we should do here... Jeancey (talk) 15:48, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

We have a page for Non-Existent People, that a number of these names came from. Perhaps it belongs there? Anyhow, for any lore links you see omitted, feel free to add them yourself. This is kind of a big job now that I think of it. I am not looking forward to the Dunmer page. Not only are there a ridiculous number of them, but Dunmer have two-part names, so pretty much none of the links are going to work right out of the box. There's a reason I did Altmer, Argonian, and Bosmer first, and it's not because of the alphabet. I'll probably do Khajiit and Redguard next, and then maybe Nord. But the two-part names are going to be a real pain... On the subject, I'm also wondering if the names on Oblivion:Whispers of Death should be created as redirects. At least (unlike the non-existent people) they can be encountered in the game, even if they don't exist most of the time. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 16:17, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

Actually, in the oblivion one, they can't be encountered in game. They are all found outside of Cyrodiil. I already added the lore links for the bosmer page, and I'm in the process of going through some books and finding more now. Question though, what do we do when the name appears in a lore book (i.e. in more than one game), but also in one of the games? Does it JUST go under the game section? Or does it also go under the lore section? Jeancey (talk) 16:24, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

If it's clearly the same person, I'd say have just the game link. If it's likely a different person with the same name, I can see justification for both. There are of course NPCs who appear in more than one game. (Doing Khajiits now, and there's three M'aiq the Liars.) Since they each have their own page, it's listed all three times. (Plus it's implied they may not all be the same person, especially given the 200 yr. gap between Oblivion and Skyrim - I don't think Khajiits live that long.) — TheRealLurlock (talk) 16:29, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

They might, you never know :) I have begun to pull names from books, but I'm going to take a break right now. You can see what I have so far here. :) Jeancey (talk) 19:37, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

I think M'aiq (Skyrim version) says it best - his father was named M'aiq as well as his father's father. I think there may also have been something in one of the books about it, but I think Khajiit lifespans are comparable to humans. Elves obviously live longer, and Argonians are still an utter mystery. Orcs seem to not live as long, but mainly because they insist on dying in battle while they're still strong enough to put up a good fight. The list looks good, though I can't quite parse the acronyms you're using for book titles. (I got a few, but maybe a key would help - then again if it's just your sandbox nobody else necessarily needs to understand it...) — TheRealLurlock (talk) 19:45, 21 February 2013 (GMT)

Morrowind Overhaul Project

I have begun the basic outline for a Morrowind Overhaul Project. If you can think of things that are needed, or anything else, please let me know :) You can find it in my sandbox, here.  :) Thanks in advance for your input! Jeancey (talk) 00:26, 22 February 2013 (GMT)

I wish I could help more, but I don't have MW installed on my current machine and I sadly lost the discs a while ago. Maybe one of these days I'll pick up another copy - it can't be too expensive anymore. Though I imagine it'll eventually be released for free as Arena and Daggerfall both were. Anyhow, I'll help out where I can, but anything requiring the actual game or CS I won't be able to do. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 02:12, 22 February 2013 (GMT)

Stubs

By the way, we talked about it yesterday, but we decided that not EVERY stub needs to be categorized, especially for the older namespaces where there are only a few stubs. My general view was, if there were less than 20 or so stubs for a given category, it wasn't really needed. This is slightly different for the lore namespace where there might always be more stubs, but for pretty much all the others, they don't need to be categorized. Jeancey (talk) 04:06, 25 February 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, I wasn't planning on doing the rest of them, because they're too varied to fit into a category that'd have more than just a few in it. I didn't get really specific either - it's Category:Skyrim Item Stubs, not "Weapon Stubs", "Armor Stubs", "Ingredient Stubs", etc. I just didn't like seeing those red-link categories on those pages, though I suppose we should just actually make the Uncategorized Stubs categories so they won't be red-links... — TheRealLurlock (talk) 04:10, 25 February 2013 (GMT)

Either that, or, now that all the ones that CAN be categorized, are, we could just revert the change to the stub template that added those categories to begin with... Jeancey (talk) 04:16, 25 February 2013 (GMT)

I have no objections either way. As I said on CP, it was the fastest way to point out any that might need categorization that weren't already, but I wasn't sure if it made sense to keep those categories in the long run. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 04:34, 25 February 2013 (GMT)

Block

I went ahead and temp-blocked this user even though Recent Changes shows that you're online since they're on a spree. Figured I'd skip the temporary message and let you change their block to however much longer you deem necessary. — ABCface^◥ 04:26, 27 February 2013 (GMT)

Hmm. Tough one. Technically since he/she/it vandalized my User page I'm not impartial - I forget if there's rules about that. I think I'll extend the block to a full day and let another admin decide whether more serious action is required. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 04:42, 27 February 2013 (GMT)

Ah didn't think of that. That solution sounds good. — ABCface^◥ 04:55, 27 February 2013 (GMT)

Lore names

For names that come from dialogue (just search the CSlist dial records), I added them as hover text, so {{Hover|Local Rumors in Morrowind|name}} for a name would display as name. I think that's the best way to go about it, since there isn't really a page to link to... Jeancey (talk) 19:47, 27 February 2013 (GMT)

Can we link to the CSlist then for these? The main motivation for adding these links in the first place is so that they're backed up by actual sources. The number of errors I uncovered doing this project underscores the need for verifiable references. How many of these are there anyhow? I'm not sure if there was any thorough process for finding names which exist only in dialogue, so we may be missing a bunch here. Might be a pain to try and find them all though. — TheRealLurlock (talk) 19:53, 27 February 2013 (GMT)

Just chiming in really quick here: I know there was some concern in the past about linking too much to CSList—if I recall correctly it had to do with how Google ranks pages, and there was concern that people might start ending up on CSList pages rather than on wiki pages, or something like that. I do remember Neph being really hesitant to open the thing up in the first place. I can search around more and try to find whatever it is I'm remembering, which would probably be more helpful, but...yeah, just throwing that out there! ⇠eshe^talk 20:00, 27 February 2013 (GMT)

That's a fair point Eshe. TRL, if we decide to, we can link to CSlist like this: Athrys. Jeancey (talk) 20:10, 27 February 2013 (GMT)

My take on it is this. As it is, hovering over the name produces nothing but "Local Rumors in Morrowind". You don't get the full name, or any hint whatsoever of who or where you have to go to hear this rumor. Basically, you have to take our word for it that a name exists somewhere, but you aren't even given the first clue how to begin looking for it (either within the game or on UESP). What I think we might need is a page for "Morrowind:Local Rumors" or something like that, where we list all of the rumors you can find, grouped by location, perhaps, and another section for rumors from specific people, etc. Every entry should be linkable, so we can from anywhere we want point to the specific rumor that we're referencing. Names in non-rumor dialogue might be more difficult, but if dialogue is limited to a single NPC, it should just be on that NPC's page. I think I remember somebody starting a project like that a while back, but I forget who... — TheRealLurlock (talk) 15:22, 28 February 2013 (GMT)