User talk:Kalis Agea/Lore Project Outline

For discussion about the Lore Pages Redesign Project (currently unnofficial).

References

What exactly would this project's approach be when it comes to events or dialogue witnessed in the TES games? I can think of only two possible approaches: 1. No reference at all, meaning an exception should be made for "vital information" that comes from a game experience. 2. A generic citation like the one found on the Third Empire page for events and dialogue witnessed during gameplay.

I guess I would prefer #1, since #2 seems like a lot more work for little gain. But it's your proposal, Kalis. Minor Edits 23:52, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

We don't usually like to cite information outside of the Lore namespace (an example of an exception would be Legoless' citing of Morrowind dialogue on this page). Nonetheless, I agree that it is something that needs to be addressed. With that in mind, I suppose I would have to say #1 is better. Only because, like you said, there is little gain from #2. Or, perhaps, there is a third way... I'll think on that. For now, I'll change it. Thanks for your thoughts! --Kalis Agea 23:59, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

See This

UESPWiki:Shivering Isles Redesign Project. I think this format would work extremely well for this project, as in a check list for each collection (Places, People, Bestiary etc.) and the "special" pages that don't really fit into the standard collections. Give it a look over, I'm sure this project would be easily acceptable if you went with this format. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 13:39, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

That's a really good format! Far more efficient than mine. I'll begin implementing the changes.--Kalis Agea^{Yes? Contrib E-mail} 17:37, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Suggested specifics

I wanted to make this as comprehensive as I could. The best thing that can be done for Lore page standardization is to set out the general rules as explicitly as possible in some place where random contributors will be able to find it, such as the Style Guide or a subset of it. Anyways, that should be the end goal. These are just my thoughts on how the Lore pages should look in general. Don't really care about the end product, I just wanted to get the ball rolling.

Beastiary and Fauna: Practically perfect. Maybe some small touches here and there, but the formatting is fine. But it might be best, with Skyrim on the horizon, to spell out the rules for even this section of the lore pages. I assume there's some general format or outline from a previous project that you can incorporate? If not, it shouldn't be too hard: name, image, sentence or two of description, game info and appropriate links and trails, done.

Factions: Content, Gallery, Notes, See Also, References

This info is applicable to the remaining sections. Content is the only absolutely guaranteed section, all others are to be used only as needed. Applicable trails for each subject should be included as appropriate.

Content may come in a number of sections and sub-sections, since some articles must find ways to relay gargantuan amounts of relevant information in aesthetically pleasing ways. Typically, "stub" articles with little or no potential for growth should simply redirect to its entry in the master list for its section, while others with more relevant information should have their own page while retaining a link followed by a brief description in the master list (no "see main article"). All content in the Content section should not break the fourth wall; nothing should directly reference the game. It should be written as if it is for (and if possible, by) a person of Tamriel residing in the most modern era available in any Elder Scrolls media.

Galleries are not about action shots, comedic screencaps, ect. They are for any images on the wiki which are iconic for the subject matter that don't already appear in the article. Typically not specific people, since images of people tend to date the lore page, but for relics important to the subject, emblems, and other relatively static images of that nature. Maps should be incorporated into this section. If they are the only images included therein, the section may be entitled "Maps" until such time other relevant non-map images are added.

The Notes section is for miscellaneous but relevant information that, for whatever reason, does not fit well in the Content section. Notably, this includes game references and other behind-the-scenes real-world information. If ambiguity persists in the article, there may also be a "featured in" note to articulate what Elder Scrolls-related media a subject has appeared in or been otherwise involved with.

See Also section may contain sentences with links to relevant articles in other namespaces relayed with the simple "For more information ..." structure. Following this may or may not be a "Books" subsection, if applicable, containing a bulleted list of relevant books in alphabetical order, even if they are cited and will appear in the reference section.

References must be proper in-line citations, not merely links.

Gods: Content, Gallery, Notes, See Also, References

Content should include any necessary sections and subsections, including for artifacts associated with the deity.

History: Content, Notes, References

No definite character limit, but there's no reason why any summary of events here should exceed a paragraph.

Library: All we need to do is make sure it's updated when Skyrim is released. However, we should also make sure that the descriptions given to each piece of literature do not make inappropriate value assessments.

People & Places: Content, Gallery, Notes, See Also, References

Races: Woefully inadequate. Generally speaking, the outline should be the same: Content, Gallery, Notes, See Also, References. However, the Content section can be further delineated for Race articles since each deals with predictable parameters. The Dwemer page, as the longest Race page (that I've seen) with the most sections, should probably be used as a model. So a full Content section would look like this: Introduction, History, Technology, Architecture, Appearance (or Anthropology), Religion & Philosophy (or simply Society), Artifacts, and Language. Of course, most races won't have all these categories, but if they do, they should be arranged in this order. Any sections currently on the pages which can't fit in to one of these archetypes should be removed and it's content incorporated somewhere else on the page. List of important individuals should be discouraged in favor of textual explanations of why those people are important.

Appendices: There can't really be any over-arching rules for a category that is, by definition, an amalgam of leftovers. Notably, this section has to be given leeway in breaking the "no game references" rule, since some are vastly more useful that way (for example, the calendar page). But generally, notes, a gallery and references should be included if feasible. Minor Edits 06:26, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Hey, Minor Edits! Sorry it's take me a little while to get around to this. I noticed it a few hours after it was posted, but didn't have time to respond. Now that I have the chance (and I've actually remembered) I'll go ahead and give you my thoughts:

• Beastiary and Fauna: I completely agree here. All I could say is that we need to create the mentioned preparation-for-Skyrim guidelines soon.

• Factions: Agreed. Nothing much more to say here! I really appreciate your thoroughness! :D

• Gods: Sounds like a plan!

• History: We need to specify a Style Guide in preparation for Skyrim.

• Library: Again, agreed.

• People and Places: The only thing I could say is (and perhaps I've already highlighted it on the page) is that we need to remove pointless authors and book characters. And the Province pages could use a revamp so as to emulate this page.

• Races: Agreed. This section is almost scarry to look at, though I don't often say it!

• Appendices: Again, agreed.

Alright, so perhaps I'm being a little too agreeable. But hey, I've alotted myself a whole month to finish this! I'll worry more about in a week or so. For now, thanks for your contributions and suggestions!--Kalis Agea^{Yes? Contrib E-mail} 02:12, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Good idea, I like that deadline. Plenty time to first think it through and implement most of it before Skyrim. Minor Edits 02:35, 8 September 2011 (UTC)