UESPWiki:Archive/CP Uncategorized Talk on Talk Pages

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This sounds like a job for Super...errr...some bot

Okay, I'll be the first to admit, I'm uptight (not the first word that came to mind) about these things, but I find it very distracting on Talk pages to have the TOC bumped half-way down my screen because of uncategorized talk that was added above it by those that weren't thinking about it or didn't know how to start a category. I'm sure NepheleBot or RoBoT could easily add an "Uncategorized Talk" category to Talk pages (or alternately, a __TOC__ tag, though that has the disadvantage of forcing a TOC to be present). But the big question is, does anybody else find it distracting enough to be worth it, or am I the only one who's "uptight" about it? :) --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 14:53, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Yup, there's me. I'm similar in that way. I hate it when things are slightly wrong. For example I was once in a restaurant, and I almost went mad because there was a picture on the wall that was slightly crooked. But yes, I think that would make me feel better aswell. - Game Lord^{Talk|Contribs} 15:21, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Yes, and I'll put my name down in the OCD club, but I'm not sure "Uncategorised Talk" is the right phrase because I just know that people will treat is as a license to add whatever they like as a follow-up. If anything, I'd say "Question" would be better as it's so noncommittal. IF - and it's a big "if" we do this, there's something that's bothered me: categories. At the moment it's a pain to look at the Uncategorized Pages list because there are so many talk pages appearing on the list. Adding a category of (NAMESPACE)-Talk would help make that page (and Uncategorized Pages) easier to use than at the moment. Oh dear. At least three of us are bothered about this. That's quite disturbing. :) –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 15:38, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Sounds good, but please make it a {{TOCright}}, preventing the user from having to scroll past the TOC first... Much cleaner page layout, and a pet peeve of mine. --Benould^•T•C 15:42, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Just one minor input: I don't think we should start adding a category to every talk page. The reason that talk pages are showing up on the uncategorized pages list is because that special page is broken, along with a handful of other special pages (see the crossed out entries on Helping Out, for example). Talk pages are not supposed to ever be shown in the list of uncategorized pages. I'd rather get the chunk of PHP code that's responsible fixed rather than introduce a system where we need to constantly be adding a meaningless category to every new talk page that gets created.

OK, while I'm at it... one more thought. Similarly, if we don't like the default display used for every TOC on the wiki, I think we'd be better off changing the default style of all the TOCs (once, in a single central place) rather than editing hundreds of pages to add a chunk of code to each of the pages. --Nephele^Talk 19:07, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

If fixing the PHP is an option then I'd definitely prefer that. I thought that was something to be avoided though? The other point isn't about the way the TOCs look, rather about where they appear. See Oblivion talk:Horses for example - the TOC appears after a large block of text and it would be much better if it could be at the top. If there's a way to do that centrally it'd be great, but I'm not sure there is. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 03:50, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

D'oh! You just had to go and point out one that sooooo badly needs fixing, didn't you?!? Now I'm just itching to fix that, but I'll leave it as is for the point of demonstration. (Yes, I know, I could fix it and point the link at the pre-fixed version, but let's try not to indulge the OCD habits too much, shall we?) --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 12:04, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

(Colon killing spree: Initiate!) As little wieght as my opinion holds, I would gladly support this. I tend to be rather picky about tiny faults as well. Problem is, would all the rigging of bots and applicating of edits cause mass server lag? Or have I missed a trick? --HMSVictory^Talk 12:09, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

We need to be somewhat cautious about making PHP changes, because the various code customizations will make upgrading the wiki software more complicated. But the fact is that some bugs can only be fixed by modifying the PHP. For example, there is no way to fix Special:Deadendpages or Special:Uncategorizedcategories without changing the PHP. I think having a non-buggy site is a higher priority than minimizing maintenance work at some unknown future point. Also, we already have a fair number of PHP customizations, and in the particular case of Special:Uncategorizedpages (and, for that matter, Special:Uncategorizedcategories), our existing PHP customizations are responsible for the problem. Fixing a chunk of code that has already been customized introduces no new maintenance issues.

As for TOCs, I understand the point that Robin Hood initially brought up. In my previous comments, I was just trying to respond to Benould's request about adding {{TOCright}} to every talk page on the site. If right-floating tables of contents are universally desirable, then we should introduce that as a site-wide style change instead of adding {{TOCright}} to every page. --Nephele^Talk 14:46, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

I can't say anything about PHP, other than what Nephele says makes sense. As to a universal TOCright, hmm, it would probably work in many cases and have a more functional and pleasing result, like here. Problems would arise on pages with an info-box on the right side, unless the code could be "smart" enough to make an exception for that. I am not sure how many pages with both TOC and info box we're talking about here, but some checking by hand would likely be needed. --Benould^•T•C 15:18, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

For myself, I'm not a fan of a right-sided TOC, though a TOC that allows the text to wrap around it on Talk pages might be nice (like {{TOCleft}} does). But I'd have to say only on Talk pages, though...too many problems could arise from introducing that kind of thing globally. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 10:59, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

Agreed on that point - in many cases, you WANT the TOC to be after the introductory text. Not so much on Talk pages, but on actual articles (e.g. Bloodmoon:Raven Rock, just from the list of pages I have open in tabs right now) it's actually preferable to have that first paragraph above the TOC. It's hardly a major concern, but if it's possible to change a little CSS or something to make TOCs always on top for only Talk pages, I'd say go for it. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 11:09, 24 May 2008 (EDT)