Template talk:Quest Header

Deleted Variables

Aristeo, I was wondering why you got rid of the 'Start' tag from the quest header. Although it's possible for the 'Start' tag and 'Loc' tag to duplicate each other, it's also possible for them to be very different. For example, I just added the quest template to A Shadow Over Hackdirt, where the quest starts in Chorrol, but all the action in the quest is in Hackdirt. Are you thinking it would be better to just have both Chorrol and Hackdirt listed in the 'Loc' tag? Also, FYI, I have noticed a couple quests that had the 'ID' tag filled in, not that it's a code that I find useful (no console)....--Nephele 17:23, 8 July 2006 (EDT)

In many of the Morrowind quests, especially with the third and fourth trial, there is no quest giver. You just do the quest. The way the variable was set up, it wouldn't accept a "None" or null reply. Also, the order of the locations should be in the order that you first visit them, so naturally the starting place should be the first one on the list. With the "ID" situation, I feel that the readers don't care about the ID of the quest, and many are offended to see things such as cheat codes or anything console related. The back-works of the quests don't belong in the walkthroughs, they belong is the "Oblivion:Glitches" or "Morrowind:Glitches" pages. A link to the glitch, however, would be helpful. Example:

If you are the grandmaster of the Morag Tong, a glitch may occur while doing the following section.

All IMHO. --Aristeo 18:17, 8 July 2006 (EDT)

Thanks for the explanation. Works fine for me, I just wanted to confirm before starting to make a bunch of edits.--Nephele 15:56, 9 July 2006 (EDT)

Quest Header Remix

Since we updated to MediaWiki version 1.6.8, and installed parser and string functions, a couple new features have opened up. After talking with Daveh and Nephele in the IRC channel, I have developed an intelligent template that will conform to the parameters given to it. For more information on how it works, see the template and read the information provided. --Aristeo 16:59, 2 August 2006 (EDT)

I think is a great idea to use the parser and string functions in the header, as they allow for an adaptive header that can be used with almost all quests in the wiki (if not all of them). However, I have a complaint about the change in style. I liked it better when the contents box was on the left and the text in the middle, since it looked more compensated/symetric. Not a big deal, but in my opinion, it looked better. By the way, I changed some of the images to thumbnails and they look OK (see Morrowind:Assault Dagoth Ur). Shall we do the same with the others. --DrPhoton 06:43, 3 August 2006 (EDT)

We probally should convert to thumbnails, then mark the manual thumbnails for deletion. No rush, though. --Aristeo 11:34, 3 August 2006 (EDT)

As with the style, the reason why I changed it was because when the editors don't have pictures to include onto the header, it makes everything look crowded to the left and empty to the right. I set it up so that it maintains a constant equilibrium depending on the parameters supplied. --Aristeo 14:12, 3 August 2006 (EDT)

I see what you've done, but why not put the images on the left then? --DrPhoton 12:27, 5 August 2006 (EDT)

From my experience with Wikipedia like pages, the first image is always on the right and the TOC is always on the left. [1] [2] [3] [4] --Aristeo 12:39, 5 August 2006 (EDT)

Exactly my point, the TOC in the middle doesn't make much sense and also unbalances the composition when there's an image. Probably the best thing to do is to have different compositions for the two cases (image/no-image) using the new functions. --DrPhoton 14:00, 5 August 2006 (EDT)

Done. Is this what you wanted? (Sorry for the delayed response) --Aristeo 16:45, 12 August 2006 (EDT)

Great! Just what I wanted. --DrPhoton 10:31, 19 August 2006 (EDT)

Quest Header Addition

Well, during the creation of individual Morrowind Quest pages, we've ran into several quests that can be done concurrently. I would like to see that added as a new quest parameter. Does anyone have any objections or comments? --Ratwar 17:39, 19 January 2007 (EST)

Sounds fine to me, as long as it's an optional parameter. --Nephele 17:55, 19 January 2007 (EST)

Proposed formatting change

There is currently a large (seems like it might be triple-spaced) gap between the quest description and the quest giver. Is anyone opposed to making this gap a bit smaller? Current version vs smaller gap version. Chris3145 16:37, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

ESO Quests

In ESO, many quests can be started as soon as you go to the place where they are given, even if those quests are part of a series. For example, Turning of the Trees in Glenumbra can be started as soon as you go to Deleyn's Mill, even if Bloodthorn Assassins, the quest which comes before it, has not been completed (or even started). Because of this, I think "Prerequisite Quest" is inaccurate wording for ESO, and was thinking maybe putting in a namespace switch for that parameter, to change it to "Previous Quest" for the Online namespace, would be beneficial.
Also, many of the quests are tied into Location Objectives (for example, The Perils of Diplomacy is the quest which is tied to Mistral's objective); if the Location is covered by the location parameter, then we could enter the Objective (if there is one) as the quest's description. This may need to be reworded slightly in the event of an objective spanning multiple quests. --Enodoc (talk) 14:31, 17 March 2014 (GMT)

Legends Quests

This template contains the compulsory location parameter. This is a problem for Legends quests, because Legends doesn't have locations like the other Elder Scrolls games. - KINMUNE ﴾TALK﴿ 07:28, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Considering Legends is a completely different style of game, it may be better to create a custom template like we did for ESO. --Enodoc (talk) 08:34, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Without knowing much about the game, I'm tempted to agree with Enodoc. I can't imagine that quests in a card game would have too much in common with the standard game quests. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 17:33, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Well, actually I just realized I was wrong there. Campaign is the storyline. Quests are the 'guild quests,' but Chapters basically consist of a couple of lines of dialogue at the start, and then you get into the battle. The main feature of these battles is that the storyline battles have special lane rules. The first are restricted to only doing what the narrator tells you. Until you're past Act I, you can only use the default deck and can't access the main menu. When you start the battle, enemies often have unique 'greetings' - In Legends, when you start a battle, you can greet your opponent. The storyline enemies have greetings based on the lane rules of the battle. Sometimes - like Naarifin - when you get to a certain condition (like enough runes destroyed) then they'll say something that advances the storyline. There's not that much that needs documenting, when I think on it again. Just enemy name, starting health, rules, and intro video. - KINMUNE ﴾TALK﴿ 03:33, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

I've created what I think a Legends Quest Header should look like in my userspace, here. I know that it's still basically this template with a couple of details changed, but could someone have a look at it and fix it up? - KINMUNE ﴾TALK﴿ 00:03, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Okay, I've gone over it and removed a bunch of stuff we didn't need, then added some sample text, just so we can see visually what it'll look like when filled out. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 04:23, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Request for New Quest Headers, "Subquest" and "Subquests"

New Quest Headers

I'd also like to request two new quest headers called "Subquest" and "Subquests" (see the "Pluralizing Quest Headers" section below) that, like the Concurrent Quest quest header that had been discussed here, could also be a parameter that is optional (and thus, at least, existent).

For example, in the Oblivion, Knights of the Nine, Priory of the Nine quest, there are actually four subquests that must be completed first before one is able to continue on to the next quest. Currently, because there is no Subquest quest header, I listed the four subquests as Concurrent Quests (not technically wrong, though not technically 100% accurate, either).

(I can't recall other examples right now off the top of my head, I'm certain this is not the only example where a Subquest quest header (and footer?) would be appropriate; this is just the example that made me think of this issue since it's the one I just completed last night :D.)

What do y'all think?

Pluralizing Quest Headers

And while we're on the subject, I'd also like to be able to pluralize quest headers, e.g., conc=Concurrent Quest and concs=Concurrent Quests, etc. Currently, "Location(s)" has something similar, although I think it would be more pleasant stylistically for us to be able to choose between singular and plural ourselves when editing using possible markup codes such as loc= and locs=. The reason I say it would be more pleasant stylistically is because if we implement singular and plural with (s) for all the headers, then I think it would look crowded to see something like this on every page:

Quest Giver(s):

Location(s):

Prerequisite Quest(s):

Next Quest(s):

Concurrent Quest(s):

Reward(s):

While there would be slight variations quest page to quest page, I still think it would be more pleasant to the eye overall if the writers themselves were allowed to determine if they wanted to use a singular quest header or a plural one.

All questions, comments, joys and gripes welcome.

keneticmotion (talk) 05:36, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

While there's obviously a difference between concurrent quests and subquests, I don't think it's enough of a distinction to be worth adding a whole new header for it. In the best case, it would be only a few letters difference and no other change; in the worst case, we would lengthen an already-long page header to have both "subquests" and "concurrent quests" headings. Plus, there's the issue of going through all existing quests to update them.

Similarly, on the pluralizing issue, I think changing the title to "...(s)" is probably the way to go. It wouldn't have to be done for everything, as most of them make sense to be singular. It's fairly rare to have multiple prerequisite quests, for example. Just looking around, the cases I do see with multiple prereqs are things like "this or that", or worse, "this or that and the other". It becomes very unclear in some cases whether it should be singular or plural. Same goes for next quests and again for quest givers, where it's typically "A or B or C" when there's more than one. Concurrent/sub-quests are the only case where there are typically multiples that all apply at once, so for those, I think the "(s)" style is the way to go. "Reward(s)" might also make sense, but you could argue that "Reward" is a collective term that doesn't need a plural.

So, overall, my feeling is that while it's a good idea in an ideal scenario, there are too many non-ideal scenarios. I'd probably go for just "Concurrent Quest(s)" and leave everything else as is. – Robin Hood ^(talk) 18:04, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Quest Header Formatting

Again, total nitpicking here and wholly a matter of personal preference, but I just don't like seeing that some quest headers, namely, "Fame/Infamy," are links, while others are not (the standard ones, Quest Giver, Location(s), etc.). See an example here.

Proposal

My proposal, and I apologize for my total noobness and lack of knowledge in implementation here, is for the header to appear as such. For example:

Instead of the way it currently is:

Fame/Infamy: Fame +1, Infamy set to 0

I propose to change it to:

Fame/Infamy: Fame +1, Infamy set to 0

Simplest (and Also Perhaps Impossible) Solution?

After thinking it over, I realized that this could actually be really easy to implement. Simply by changing the chain of text that the "|Fame=" markup code displays, we can create a sitewide change immediately. That is, currently, the markup code leads to:

Fame/Infamy:

All we would have to do is change it to display this instead:

Fame/Infamy: Fame, Infamy

The difficult (and thus, impossible? non-existent?) aspect of this would be to also add in the actual values into the markup, that is, the "+1" and the "set to 0" text. If there were a way to set the markup to incorporate values like formulas in Excel, then we would be all set. For example, if we could get the markup to display this:

Fame/Infamy: Fame +1, Infamy set to 0

simply by entering something like this:

|Fame:+1, set to 0

then we would have our change. Note that the markup would not need to actually calculate anything; although what we would be entering as values are numeric in nature, the markup would just need to read them as text, essentially "copy and pasting" whatever values we enter into the appropriate location.

Any help and input from editors knowledgeable about changing the way markup text displays and/or possibly adding values and variables to them would be appreciated here.

TL;DR Conclusion

The above being said, if there is no way to automate it, I wouldn't mind changing all the pages that have this manually myself since I realize this is wholly an issue of personal preference (and such an inconsequential one at that (to probably pretty much everyone but me :D)). I guess in general, it's just that I like to see consistency in style, that is, since the rest of the quest headers are not links (AFAIK), then none of them should be. An argument could be made that "Fame/Infamy," is unique and thus, requires unique treatment, to which I say, "Bah, humbug! Uniqueness is overrated :D."

All questions, comments, joys and gripes welcome.

keneticmotion (talk) 04:39, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

This request is much more feasible. If we do do something like this, we'd want to go for a format like |fame=+1 |infamy=0. That way, we're not relying on editors to know that they're supposed to link "Fame" or "Infamy" and the template can just do it itself. Doing it that way, a bot could do the vast majority of the work fairly easily. That said, there are a few exceptional cases, like Oblivion:The Wayward Knight, that we'd have to figure out an approach to before we do anything further. – Robin Hood ^(talk) 18:04, 17 August 2021 (UTC)