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Skyrim talk:Sneak/Archive 2

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This is an archive of past Skyrim talk:Sneak discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Children

Do children have an unusually high chance to detect a sneaking character? My character has 100 Sneak, all the perks, and bonuses due to gear. I routinely sneak past guards, trolls, Dragon Priests, and most else with little problem. Yet it seems that I can't even set foot in a room with a child without being immediately detected. Just now in the Dragonreach Jarl's Quarters, I had no problem sneaking by two watching guards, only to have a child detect my character through a closed door. Has anyone else noticed anything like this? Dragonsey 64.56.1.103 20:12, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes. SOMETIMES they don't detect the character with 100 sneak if they are sleeping in a different room (preferably in a different city). Obviously, Bethesda programmers don't know anything about children. Players requested children in game but they were already a big failure in fallout 3 and it is worse in Skyrim. Oblivion was better without children and their ridiculous godlike abilities. Alduin wouldn't stand a chance against one single Bethesda child. So, why worry about the so-called consumer of worlds when he can't kill a simple child and is surpassed in all abilities ? — Unsigned comment by 90.19.219.189 (talk) at 00:12 on 4 January 2012
Yeah, I've noticed this as well. I think I prefer not having any kids in my games if it's going to be like this. I'd go off on a tangent about how many things were done incorrectly about them (2 voice actors for all kids? invincible yet able to impede you by detection. etc) but I think everyone gets the point Bushwhacker 10:46, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Fast way to level up sneak and conjuration

I'm sure there's tons of ways people have found to level them both up quickly, but I was just playing and i noticed something. if you reanimate a body, then go into sneak mode and kill it, your sneak mode will jump faster than if you were to just try sneaking past guards and etc. — Unsigned comment by Microsplice (talk • contribs) at 21:01 on 30 December 2011

Correct, your sneak skill levels from 3 things, to my knowledge. Sneaking around undetected, arousing suspicion but not being found and using sneak attacks all give sneak experience, it's why it's such an easy skill to level. Bushwhacker 10:49, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Sneak Attack Experience

I have noticed while playing that sneak attacks with a melee weapon seem to level sneak faster than melee. I have tested this and confirmed that this indeed is the case. I do not know whether this is due to damage or just because archery sneak attacks are easier, but I am updating the page to reflect this. APSX3427 01:28, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

In general archery sneak attacks will yield lower damage and exp is tied directly to damage in a non linear progression, this is due mostly to the critical multipliers and the ability to double backstab damage via the shrouded gloves. giving swords a 12x perked crit and daggers a 30x perked crit. far outperforming any bow with its mere 3x perked. 71.180.30.46 01:59, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Sneak resetting

I've read that if you have a very high Sneak level and equip Sneak enhancing items, you can go "over the limit" and the game will start counting from 0 again(i.e. you have 100 Sneak, equip +20%, you end up with effective 20 Sneak). Can anyone confirm or deny this? 178.183.238.122 07:50, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

if this is true couldn't we use it for getting past level 81 or was it 83, whatever what I'm saying is we could use it to get past the max level.----Candc4, Also known as the Man Inside the Sexy Leather Pants CT 16:17, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
From my experience, I tried using a total bonus of +140% from gear, the muffle spell AND the invisibility spell. When I do this, people can detect me without moving AND behind walls. So, yes, overpowering your sneak bonus breaks the game mechanics against you. I have to take the gear out to become a better sneaker, after all. I'm still trying to find the best bonus for remaining undetected. Tuliomir 01:19, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
I think this needs to be looked into more. Currently I have 100 sneak; sneaking around Mistveil Keep I am decently undetected though if I get close to anyone or move into a bright light I am detected while moving. I'm enchanting a new set of armor and my Glass Gauntlets were enchanted with Magicka + 162 & Sneak + 105%. After applying them I can move pretty much anywhere undetected, even moving in light and directly in front of anyone. The only way I can be detected is to actually bump into someone. It may not be as relevant to the sneak skill but since it is related to detection; my Glass Boots have Stamina + 162 and Muffle. Let me know what you think!The G00D Job 18:46, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
To test this further I fortified my sneak to 1008% (with level 100 sneak) and the level of detection increased accordingly. Bumping into people in broad daylight resulted in staying hidden. I'm on Xbox so I'm more limited in my tests but I feel this confirms that sneak does not reset. (It may reset after a certain value greater than 1000%) The G00D Job 02:57, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
I tested on XBox 360 with what I could work with, and found the following out --
I had base sneak skill of 69 with the 3/5 level up for a 30% bonus. I enchanted (myself) a pair of boots to increase sneak by 74% (didn't want to go over 100) and added muffle. I tried to sneak past my housecarl leaving the enchanting table at Vlindrel Hall, he was at the main table facing me. As soon as I got in the room he noticed me, he lost track of me completely when I was behind him (out of sight and muffled). Removing the boots, I got the same result, although I couldn't get up to his back without the muffle feature of the boots. In other words, a 74% increase seemingly made no difference in my sneak abilities
My hypothesis is this -- if the sneak resets, then I would have had 99%, with 1% of the 74% increasing to 100% and then wrapping back around to (100 - 73) or 27. Would this make any difference? When I used to have a 27% sneak I could get one shot in with a bow, then was detected - the same as I experience now. I don't know if my housecarl is an appropriate target buy others above me have seemed to indicate that anything over 100% made them all but invisible, and in this case mine is not. However, it would be great if someone with access to console could find these values because testing is ultimately rather limited on the XBox. Greg awesome 20:20, 4 May 2012 (UTC)Greg Awesome, 4 May 2012

Sneaking with Spells Ready

Has it been confirmed that sneaking with a ready spell does not affect your sneak ability? Other pages on the net have claimed differently:

I was playing sneak sneak stab stab this morning for the benefit of some little kids and was spotted when I pulled out my dagger + healing spell, hidden when I put them away, and hidden with only my dagger out...

Cjs 04:22, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

The spells give off light, the game engine allows the player to be more easily detected while holding a light source, so yes, with a spell readied would almost assuredly make you more detectable. Casting creates noise that can be heard. Do differet spell groups make you easier to detect such as destruction vs. illusion? That is a question worth exploring.--Zar Pof 04:32, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
I thought spells only created light when you were "charging" them before fully flinging them out. I've never noticed my stealth degrading when I had a spell in a hand, thought not being prepped to be flung. Noobishlord 03:17, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
On the Sneak page, under Remaining Undetected, we have the line:
  • "The glow of light over your hands when you have a spell equipped does not count as a light source."
However, on the Illusion page, under Notes:
  • "Even if you cast Invisibility, your character can be detected while sneaking if holding a spell. Any spells that emanate light will increase chance of detection."
So which is correct? We definitely need to fix whichever is wrong. 98.228.90.26 06:00, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
I can pretty much assure you that having a spell ready (not charging it, just having it equipped to a hand) makes you more visible to enemies. I've tested this through and through. Bushwhacker 10:51, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
I believe they're both true. Having a spell equipped definitely increases your chance of detection, but not nearly as much as holding a torch, which actually changes the illumination of your area. Having a weapon out also seems to make them a little bit more likely to notice you, but not as much as a spell. 202.61.163.197 12:55, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Light Foot Perk Glitch?

I'm level 100 in sneak and have the "Light Foot" perk where I supposedly don't set off traps when stepping on trigger stones. However in the quest Silver Lining, I stepped on a trigger stone and the trap went off, as well as each time I stepped off and back on to test to see if it really was happening.

Help? 69.76.222.152 04:22, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

I can't give a guarantee, but I think some trigger-tiles are still affected, even after getting the perk. Most likely a bug if it's a trap that hits the person who triggers it though. Bushwhacker 10:54, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
The Silver Lining trigger is definitely a bug, as none of the other triggers are set off with light foot. I assume the one you're having trouble with is the one at the start of the narrow wooden beams that triggers a load of poison dart traps? It seems that the wrong code for the trigger was used, allowing it to ignore the perk. It's worth noting that for some triggers that this is supposed to happen, for example in Shroud Hearth Barrow, as one of the puzzles uses pressure plates to trigger it. It's possible the broken trap in Silver Lining is using the same code mistakenly? Anyway, it's a bug with that particular trap-trigger, not the perk itself, and I believe it's already listed under bugs either for the quest itself, or for the location. -- Haravikk 11:16, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Can anyone confirm?

Can anyone confirm the bug saying that as of patch 1.3 you're much more likely to be detected while sneaking? I've tested this and cannot see any real difference. Only change I've ever noted is post 1.2 it seems that the amount of moonlight at night played a much larger role in how easy it was to sneak while outdoors. Lord Eydvar 04:47, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Could this be the bug that was fixed with patch 1.4.27, where having a follower makes you more likely to be detected, because it wasn't checking for the follower being detected correctly (or something like that)? --Gaebrial 09:22, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
Probably, would be my guess, I never noticed that bug till reading about it but I'm on 360 and have never seen a change in how easy sneaking was with the noted exception of moonlight seeming to be handled differently since 1.2 or 1.3 Lord EydvarTalk 07:15, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
If anything I've found that sneaking is a bit more effective at higher levels since applying the patch. Enemies are still a bit psychic in outdoor areas, but it doesn't seem as bad as it was. -- Haravikk 11:18, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

How does the light armor affect sneaking ?

How is the malus calculated ? — Unsigned comment by 89.159.135.162 (talk) at 19:55 on 25 February 2012

Same as any other armor, silly! The higher the armor rating on each piece of armor you're wearing, the easier it is to hear you, thus the easier to detect you.
If you are looking for information about armor improved with the Smithing Skill, you got me. No idea as to whether Smithing improvements raise detection level while sneaking.
It could be that the Effective AR (Armor Rating) is the value that comes into play with sneaking. OR it could be that the BASE AR comes into play. The Base AR being the AR of the base item in question, no improvements, no enchatnments.
Concerning protection bonuses from perks, active effects, and enchantments, those are silent, and do not raise your ESNL (Effective Sneaking Noise Level).
And now I have a question for you: What the hell do you mean by "malus"? Do you mean "MALUS"? If so, what does MALUS stand for? Sorry for asking, very confused here. 0.o --Pupdude Shall Pwn You! (Talk) 20:02, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Sneak not working?

So i'm level 100 in sneak with full ancient shrouded armor and it doesn't seem like anything is affecting me. I can easily be spotted by draugr and pretty much anything as if I had level 15 sneak. Anyone know if this is a glitch or something? Theaznruler 01:39, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Sounds like it, You are remembering to go into sneak mode I'm guessing! I'd suggest you try unequipping all of your armor/jewelry, equip different items into all of those slots, and then switch back. I've noticed a rare glitch with the Block skill that causes block perks to not apply that is fixed by switching armor so maybe this will work for you. Lord EydvarTalk 07:18, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Dagger sneak power vs. normal attacks

  • I have tested this extensively. Power attacks made with a dagger and not dual wielding do no extra damage over a normal non-power attack sneak attack. Furthermore, dual wielding power attacks do cause more damage, even the tap both buttons one which uses no stamina; additionally, dual wielding a dagger with a sword or other non dagger in the off hand will give a higher damage sneak attack when using a single dagger attack with it for some reason. One more thing, shield bashing will do a sneak attack based on the weapon you have equipped, and deadly bash will also work with it too. I tested all these on ancient dragons(with tai to get to the beast), most of the numbers weren't too far from each other, but each category was consistent and uniform. Feel free to test yourself, but these are my honest observations.

(Moved from the main page, added by an anon) — Unsigned comment by Evilneko (talk • contribs) on 25 April 2012

You're looking at the Sneak skill from the wrong angle. This statement right here proves your experiment was for naught: THERE ARE NO POWER ATTACKS IN SNEAK MODE. Trust me, sometimes I am being attacked and I notice my attacks are slower than usual. Then I notice the reticle.
/ \
\°/
DETECTED
The game has only one kind of attack available when sneaking: The "Sneak Attack", which deals a certain amount of damage, and if not detected, gains a cute little multiplier! ^-^ This is to prevent abuse with the sneak attack mechanics by effectively getting an exponentially larger attack. So you only get one attack in sneak mode due to game balance. You might be saying that the 30x sneak attack with a dagger (Poor Cicero got killed by the mean Listener for his good looking gloves that work exactly the same as the standard Dark Brotherhood gloves, except for a lower Armor Rating XD) is off balance, but keep in mind that if power sneak attacks were in game, power sneak attacks would already be available as soon as Hadvar or Ralof cut off your rope cuffs (Even if it's a measly 2x bonus), whereas you have to work to get the Assassin Blade perk, and it's a ways off, AND you have to join the Dark Brotherhood (Or be a mean Listener and kill Cicero when you get the chance XD). So the 30x is well earned once you get it. That's a lot of sneaking around to get to that point! XD --Pupdude Shall Pwn You! (Talk) 20:26, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Exact Mechanics

"Sneak":

"Stealth":

"Detect"

If possible I would like to determine exact Sneak mechanics. At the top of this section I'll make a table of game settings.

--Evil4Zerggin 04:45, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Silence Perk

How exactly does the Silence perk work? It is described as running/walking not affecting detection. But I read elsewhere that it acts as an increased version of Muffled Footsteps. From the description I would have thought it would let you remain undetected without crouching. 2.29.91.184 18:10, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

You're right. Muffled Movement and Silence is exact the same, but Silence negate all sound, Muffled Movement just the half of it.
Greetings. JDB — Unsigned comment by 77.20.152.245 (talk) at 15:54 on 21 June 2012
Silence is not working at all for me. Yet another bug? — Unsigned comment by 67.164.33.239 (talk) at 00:26 on 21 August 2012

Unsheathing weapons and sneaking movespeed

I'm not sure if it's just me, or if this issue was already fixed on more recent patches, but if you unsheath your weapons while sneaking and moving forward, your movespeed is the same (or at least similar) to as if you weren't sneaking for a few seconds (if you stop moving forward, it usually goes back to regular sneak movespeed, but not always).

I tested this with bow and dual-wielding on the ps3. I'm not sure which version I'm playing (since my TV is too small and I can't see the game version), but the last time I updated was february 12th, so I think it's v1.4.

EDIT: Nevermind, someone already mentioned it on the archives for this page...

--189.67.116.180 04:36, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Another Way to Gain Sneak Exp

Should it also be listed that you also gain a decent amount of exp when you successfully avoid detection? (ie: you alert enemies so that they appear hostile but haven't "detected" you, then returning to "un-alerted" status).

I've noticed that the majority of the time I level up sneak is the moment when I return to undetected status. Is this because you gain extra exp when enemies lose track of you, or is it just a big coincidence on my part? If it isn't just dumb luck, then this could be a very effective way to level up sneak, especially at higher levels when it's easy to escape detection..... ---Gamer3427 22:12, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

You get a bonus every time NPCs investigating "that strange noise" lose interest. (y'know, like an animal that loses interest after continuously striking a seemingly dead animal. XD) It IS on the page, and you probably did not see it. --Pupdude Shall Pwn You! (Talk) 20:46, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Psychic NPCs (bug?)

Sneak attacks broke somehow in my current lvl 22 savefile. I can no longer backstab NPCs in town without getting detected. If I kill the sleeping guard in the whiterun barracks I get a 1000 gold bounty even though I was undetected and the guard from outside the barracks comes in to search for me. If I kill Farengar or another lone NPC in Dragonsreach out of sight of everyone else the whole place still immediately becomes hostile to me. An earlier (lvl 19) save doesn't have this problem.

Is this a known bug or does anyone have an idea what could have caused this? 87.122.89.132 12:59, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

double sneak attack

I believe dual wielding and sneak attacking both weapon at the same time counts double experience because you get two successful sneak attacks. Can someone verify? — Unsigned comment by 75.54.82.110 (talk) at 01:10 on 26 July 2012

Silent Roll Bug

I've been experiencing a very specific problem with the Silent Roll. If I have my fists raised, unarmed, then the roll glitches and my character just tumbles in place without advancing, but only in third-person. The roll executes just fine in first-person, and if I have a weapon equipped, whether sheathed or drawn, there are no problems in either perspective. SonGoharotto 15:06, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

sneaking impossible

As of instaling dawnguard and the patches required to do so sneaking is all but impossible if i am behind everyone i can remain hidden, but if one guy across town is looking in my general direction, no matter how dark it is I am spotted instantly. this is with 100 sneak, i have enchantments that fortify sneak these help some to lower the range they can see. Still its nearly impossible for my character to remain undected. I recall reading somthing about one of the patches breaking sneak and somthing else. I thought it was on the patches page but i can not find it there now. Is this normal with this new patch? its not a simple glich this was killing me on my new character i started when i got dawnguard didnt nail what was realy going on till i got on my old character and even he cant sneak anymore. — Unsigned comment by 207.119.9.134 (talk) at 01:45 on 29 August 2012

Detected by Children while Invisible

I know this is an old discussion, but I also think it's worth noting that casting invisibility (don't know if something similar can happen with other spells, too) almost ANYWHERE in a house in which you are trespassing can initiate a scripted sequence in which the child starts talking to you even if you haven't been detected and have ridiculously high sneaking skills. The child asks you if you can turn him invisible too, and regardless of the reply you choose, the child then starts warning you to get out of the house before he calls the guards. This can really be a problem for quests like "Missing in Action"; regardless of your sneaking skills, the Battle-born kid can totally blow your cover as your trying to find evidence about Thorald in the house.

This problem is similar to how a guard will automatically run up to you to tell you to stop shouting even if you remain undetected while shouting and have the silent casting perk. dukesilver 11:39, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

I agree that these conditions should be noted in the article. --Xyzzy Talk 16:30, 27 September 2012 (GMT)

Speed-sneaking

Mentioned this in the notes of the block page but figured I'd mention it here as it might be worth making a little more public, that if you achieve the 'block-runner' perk and block with a shield/single-handed weapon while sneaking, you can sneak at running speeds. Excellent for blazing through dungeons undetected, especially when you get the silent runner perk. --Grieves (talk) 21:36, 1 October 2012 (GMT)

It's already noted here as well. However, to cover the bases I also added it to Skyrim:Transport. --AKB Talk Cont Mail 22:08, 1 October 2012 (GMT)

easy sneak

When you are in helgen keep and get torturer you will find 2 Iron daggers,one on table with the book of dragon born and a sack. The other on the bar. Grab both and equip. Start to leave the room and you will hear the torturer say "There's no way out that way you know." , at that point turn back into the room with the torturer. Walk up to him and take all your clothes off. At this point turn on auto-save to 5 mins. And put the difficulty to master. Now swing with both daggers, he can detect you so wait a second. As soon as you get the first perk in stealth or a sneak of 30 he will not be able to detect after each swing. He will though turn around in "J" pattern . You can Max your sneak in twenty minutes.

Note. Can only be done if you chose hadvar to enter the dungeon with. — Unsigned comment by 74.71.217.27 (talk) at 05:24 on 22 November 2012‎

Yet another way to gain Skill XP

I noticed that only the Greybeards are listed on the page (from High Hrothgar) for skill training, but I experienced that during the Unrelenting Force shout training, the summoned ethereal targets are very ideal for this purpose, as the Greybeards summon them perpetually as long as you don't fulfill the quest's needs, they never generate any aggression towards your character, and fairly easy to hide from even with very low levels of sneaking. So all in all, backstabbing these targets was a very convenient way for me to level up Sneaking (I took the time to go up to 90 this way). This even can be combined with harassing Master Arngeir, because when all three Greybeards summoned a target, he tells you to shout on the targets as they appear, and during this, you can get in just enough hits not to get him hostile, but to fill out the time.

Edit: with high sneak levels, backstabbing him 3-4 times made him angry with me, so I'd suggest 2 hits while he's talking. Also, this course of action gives you the partially open eye, which gains even more skill XP.

One more thing. It was almost as if the ethereal targets did not see at all... I could hide from them by simply going behind them perfectly. Of course this would make sense, what would one expect from a dummy target after all...

I know there are millions of other methods (including the stuck dwemer spider in the quest Unfathomable depths), but this one is so readily available to every player, that I think it might be of worth to note it on the page.

Dmartinkovics (talk) 21:40, 26 November 2012 (GMT)


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