Skyrim talk:First Lessons

How to Join

Hey, I dont know how to join because for me, she is saying to cast a fear spell to get in. I bought the spell but when I cast it does not do anything and I am not sure if the spell you have to use is random or how I join the guild. Thanks --Lord.Baal 18:36, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

She selects an Apprentice level spell from one school of magic at random. You have to cast the spell at the rune on the floor near her to pass the test. You can also do a Shout at the rune to bypass the spell test. Kyne's Peace is a good one to use to avoid getting a bounty for assault. Torinir 15:30, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

IIRC, I didn't have to hit the rune with the Shout. I just used Unrelenting Force on the wall and she let me in. Oblivion nerd 19:39, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Weird Spell...

She asked me to cast a "Light" Spell for her... and I cast it and it did nothing... — Unsigned comment by 24.32.60.143 (talk)

Perhaps you cast Candlelight instead of Magelight. The quest will only advance if you cast the latter, an Apprentice-level spell. --Enodoc 22:17, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

I had the same issue, until I realized I missed the part about having to cast it on the sigil on the ground. Once I did that it worked. Same with firebolt. — Unsigned comment by 68.147.205.220 (talk) at 05:04 on 4 December 2011

Spells for the test

The spell Faralda asks you to demonstrate appears not to be related to the response you give her regarding your motive for entering the college. There are five possible spells, and only four dialogue options. In addition, the dialogue option that initiates the test is separate and not related to the other four; the last sentence she says before explaining the test is always the same, suggesting that the same code is being used by the time the test section is activated. I've edited the article to say that the spell is random, as without any more information that is all it seems to be. It is possible however that the spell chosen is affected by skill level in the different schools of magic - the Magelight spell may be more likely to be chosen for someone well practiced in Alteration. With the Xbox 360 version I will have no way of checking the codes when the Construction Set is released, but it may be worth investigating in the future. I've also removed the bug regarding the spell, as if they are random, which is likely, then it's not a bug at all. --Enodoc 23:05, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

I just also tested the Shouting, which didn't work at all. Perhaps that only works when you're on the relevant Main Quest that requires you to visit the college, and not otherwise. --Enodoc 23:20, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Casting spell 360

I was holding off doing any of the main quest line and didn't know about the possibility of using a dragon shout, so when I tried to enter the college, I had to cast a spell. I was given the fear spell. As I was playing a non-magical character, I hadn't put any levels into magicka. Trying to be cute, I went around and got a bunch of fortify magicka items to give me enough magicka to cast the spell, and it did not work. I wasn't allowed entrance until I actually got enough levels in magicka to cast fear without any aids (be they enchanted items or potions). — Unsigned comment by 67.142.178.22 (talk) at 23:27 on 10 December 2011

Utilizing the Ward spell

I've found that as a non-caster, holding a Ward long enough for Tolfdir to cast spells at me is a pain. However, Spellbreaker's Ward effect counted, so yay? 76.240.192.240 09:51, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

That would be a good adition to the page, especially for non-mages.RIM 10:33, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

This is confirmed by me. If your magika is too low, by the time Tolfdir is ready to cast the spell, your magika is already running out and Tolfdir will detect it and stop casting. Solved by equipping some magika gear.

Glitch

Killing a college member on the PS3 version does not reset the quest nor does fighting any of the 3 mages with Tolfdir. If you have information that will actually work, please post it when possible. — Unsigned comment by 24.166.151.86 (talk) at 00:58 on 22 December 2011

Odd behavior under 1.3.10.0

After completing my tour with Mirabel I entered the Hall of Elements and noticed that there were only two students and Tolfdir wasn't talking. I spoke to him and he simply said "after the unfortunate incident that just occurred...I think it is best if we just move on" and the First Lessons quest immediately completed and Under Saarthal began, but with no explanation as to what had happened. Kastagir 07:37, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

seems like a student died somehow and that must be the reaction, i would say the student died during a dragon attack that the college reguraly endures. (Eddie The Head 07:42, 23 December 2011 (UTC))

Onmund is the student that is missing. I loaded up another character that had completed this sequence successfully and ran through it again. It seems that typically as you first approach Mirabel Ervine as she is talking to Ancano, the three students will be walking from the Hall of Attainment to the Hall of Elements, setting them up to be there with Tolfdir when you finish your tour. The problem is that they have already done this and entered the Hall of Elements before I even enter the college and Onmund is not among them. He is also not in the Hall of Attainment, nor do I see his corpse anywhere. Kastagir 07:58, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Using "player.moveto 1c1a2" teleported me to Onmund's corpse, which was inside a boulder east of Winterhold (I could walk out of the rock, but not back in). Using the "resurrect" command didn't help, as he just stood there. Using the "player.moveto 1c1a2" command from a previous save found him wandering around inside Winterhold, so I'm not sure what happened. I'm sure proceeding from an earlier save is likely to allow the quest to proceed normally providing I get there before he gets killed again. Kastagir 08:12, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Well thanks for the info, I'll add the it to the page, doesn't seem like you are losing much anyway, Onmund isn't essential to any quests (except his quest) and other than that you'll miss out on a free ward spell if you didn't have one. (Eddie The Head 08:17, 23 December 2011 (UTC))

Can't Get into College!

Hi all! Started Skyrim yesterday after 200 hours of Oblivion and loving it! Got a question about getting into the college though. I completed the quest 'First Lessons', but the gate to the college is locked and it says I need a key to enter.

Anyone got any ideas? Is it glitched? Have I missed something?

Thanks in advance! (Saddy85 12:35, 27 December 2011 (UTC))

Faralda's supposed to lead you to the gate. Did something happen to her — Unsigned comment by DelosFandas (talk • contribs) at 23:22 on 5 January 2012

Ok, so I returned to it and I could now follow her! Seems like the game had decided to make me wait, although a dragon did turn up do maybe that was the issue?! — Unsigned comment by Saddy85 (talk • contribs) at 15:45 on 2 February 2012

Quest stages incorrect

Using Skyrim version 1.7.7.0.6. I wanted to skip the tour, because it's tedious, but found that the stages listed in the article are not correct. My character is currently taking the tour, and the command 'sqs mg01pointer' results in this output:

Stage 10: 1

Stage 200: 1

Stage 255: 1

I don't have experience with the Creation Kit to check the stages manually, but whomever is doing the redesign for this page should make sure this gets fixed. — Unsigned comment by 67.185.76.41 (talk) at 03:38 on 19 August 2012

Try using mg01 instead of mg01pointer and you should get the correct stages. — Unsigned comment by 82.2.125.249 (talk) at 15:14 on 13 September 2012‎

Persuasion

Has anyone ever been able to successfully persuade Faralda that they don't need to take her test for admission? I've begun playing without any gold/monetary transactions and am curious just how high one's Speech has to be to get into the College (before acquiring the Elder Knowledge quest and just shouting for her). 76.185.41.201 18:30, 3 September 2012 (EDT)

As noted in the speech skill that specific persuade attempt requires a speech skill 100 (70 with relevent perks) Lord Eydvar ^{Talk | Contribs} 18:32, 3 September 2012 (EDT)

Thanks for the quick response - I hadn't checked out the Speech page recently 76.185.41.201 23:54, 3 September 2012 (EDT)

I just gained admittance thru a Persuade (I have 100 Speech) and now I can not complete the Quest. May have to re-load a save? Trying other stuff now.Appears to just be a qlitch where it is just the quest that hasn't been removed to the completed quest file. I can fully access the College.

70.37.204.210 07:29, 11 October 2012 (GMT)

Not a prerequisite quest

The current text is incorrect:

"Several of the college's optional quests become available once First Lessons has been completed, namely Out of Balance, Enchanting Pick-Up, Filling Soul Gems, and Restocking Soul Gems, Fetch me that Book!, and Shalidor's Insights."

I have savefiles where Out of Balance, Enchanting Pick-Up, and Restocking Soul Gems are given before I've even entered the Hall of Elements. I've just tested Fetch me that Book! and Shalidor's Insights from a very current save, and Urag is up in the middle of the night and perfectly willing to give me both! I cannot find anything in the CK that makes this a requirement conditional.

And I've never been given Filling Soul Gems, even after completing Under Saarthal. How did you ever get it to trigger?
--DayDreamer (talk) 02:40, 15 October 2012 (GMT)

Freezing and CTDs

Due to not knowing the lesser ward or any ward spell at all, my game froze completly. Suprisingly not when I entered the CELL and Skyrim should be checking the scripts for it. No it was in the Middle of the Conversation between the three Apprentices and Tolfdir. Probably shortly before Tolfdir wants your Opinion on the matter. I tested and retested it. Only adding the Spelltome by Console helped.

I think it should be mentioned under the Bug section for this Quest. Sonofloki (talk) 22:27, 7 November 2012 (GMT)

Filling Soul Gems?

Well, given that Filling Soul Gems is an unfinished quest that never starts (it even says so on the linked page!), I'm going to remove it from the list of quests available. Add a note on the page too. 72.42.155.45 23:41, 9 December 2013 (GMT)

Bug: Firebolt task can be completed by Ignite and Incinerate

In my work on a mod to overhaul Skyrim's magic system, I've uncovered that the spells Ignite (added by Ahzidal's Ring of Arcana in the Dragonborn DLC) and Incinerate both have the same quest trigger script assigned (MG01FireEffectScript) to allow them to be able to complete the "cast the firebolt spell" stage of the quest; it's a script that was only meant to be assigned to the Firebolt spell. It's very likely that when Bethesda created the Ignite and Incinerate spells, they did so by simply duplicating the main damage effect of the Firebolt spell (which also duplicates any assigned scripts) and forgot to remove that script afterwards. I've updated the main page's bug section to include this information. --Lobotomy 98.232.179.32 22:58, 25 January 2014 (GMT)

Gaining Entry as Dragonborn

Uh, how exactly? I have done this once before but am uncertain as to how to reproduce it. I meet the requirements as outlined here so assume there must be something else. Anyone know how to trigger Firalda's dialogue option that allows the player to choose the Dragonborn option?

I don't think it's a speech requirement that is in addition to completing the initial Dragonborn reqs. I tried a character with 62 Speech and the Persuasion perk (92 Speech). That character also had Dibella's amulet (+15 Speech) and when that was worn the "100" Speech requirement was met and Firalda let my character right in without a test.

I though it might have something to do with starting Azura's artifact quest "The Black Star" and canceling Firalda's default "Admittance" dialogue so she could be asked "Is there an elven mage here that studies stars?". But I still cannot reproduce the "Dragonborn" dialogue option. --RasterOps (talk) 01:34, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

"You can also mention that you are Dragonborn if you have completed the requisite quests. She will then ask to see a shout."

moved this from the main page. I looked all over the First Lessons quest in the CK and there is nothing in there about showing her a shout to gain entry to the college. The quest itself has no dialogue even suggesting this is a possability nor do any of the stages reference it. I also tried it myself on multiple different occasions without mods after completing various stages of the main quest and after even completing all the DLC main quests and still no difference. I don't know what this page or the other Skyrim wikis are referencing but there isn't anything I can see short of using a mod to do this.Vainamoinen -Talk -Stuff 19:21, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Another wiki says it is accessible after completing Elder Knowledge but given that I've tried it after that as well and the continued lack of any dialogue associated with it... I think it can be used to gain entry during that quest only, if it exists at all. If anyone can verify this and modify the main page accordingly... I just went and tested it out, seems only possible during Elder Knowledge, unsure of specifics when it becomes unavailable and if this is a bug or not.Vainamoinen -Talk -Stuff 19:29, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

It is possible. You must be at stage 50 of Elder Knowledge. This is a relevant script and id on Faralda's dialogue TIF__000B811F (b811f), and it has been verified before with use of the {{vn}} template on the page. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 19:51, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict) It's definitely possible; I've done it multiple times playing on PC. I don't remember what quests I had completed, but I don't think Elder Knowledge was active at the time I did it. I feel like there was a bug connected to that dialogue option that was fixed by the Unofficial Skyrim Patch, but a quick search through the fixlist doesn't show anything. Zul do onikaan^{Laan tinvaak} 19:52, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

I just tested it. Feel free to verify it for yourself but it is currently not possible except during Elder Knowledge without mods activated.Vainamoinen -Talk -Stuff 19:54, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

I would take it as a personal favor if contributors would fact check before undoing all of my edits on this quest. This is getting to the point of vandalism. They are now documented bugs and listed with the appropriate USLEEP version that fixes them in the bugs section so again... personal favor.Vainamoinen -Talk -Stuff 18:12, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

(←) I have reverted the addition of these bugs, as version 3.0.5 of the Legendary Edition does not currently exist; according to the official fix list, the latest version is 3.0.4, and neither of the two issues you added are listed as fixes under that OR 3.0.3. Are you certain that that's the correct section? If those issues are listed somewhere else in the fix list, could you please link to the relevant section? I wasn't able to find it when I tried to search through myself.

As for the reverting of your edits, wiki policy states that when making changes to established information, the changes must be properly backed up, or they may be reverted. Silencer and I have both been able to obtain this dialogue, which contradicts your initial claim that the dialogue cannot be obtained, and your supposition that it is only possible to obtain this option while Elder Knowledge is active has not been verified. Because the changes you are making are contrary to the information that has been on the page unchallenged for a long time now, it is incumbent upon you to prove that your new version is more accurate. Zul do onikaan^{Laan tinvaak} 18:33, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

https://afktrack.afkmods.com/index.php?a=issues&i=20940 Vainamoinen -Talk -Stuff 18:46, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

It appears that it is possible to get that dialogue from Faralda, but the conditions are very specific. As The Silencer said, you must be at Stage 50 of Elder Knowledge; just having completed it doesn't count. I was initially tempted to say that was probably a bug, but I'm not so sure now. I think it might have been intended that the only time you could trigger that was if you were approaching the college about the Elder Scrolls. With Dawnguard, this is expanded to include being at Stage 10 or higher of Seeking Disclosure, but not having completed Stage 25. The specific stage limitation on Elder Knowledge is still there, though, so I think if you're not doing the related Dawnguard quest, that would still be in effect. Assuming this all pans out in in-game testing, I think some of Vainamoinen's edits may need to be reinstated, though in other cases, the original text was correct. Either way, there's no question in my mind that these as good-faith edits based on testing and CK investigation, but yes, this did approach the point of edit warring, and the original page should have been allowed to stand until the debate was resolved.

To address another point here, I have no problem with pre-emptively putting USLEEP fixes in—I do it all the time. The one thing I would suggest is that you add |trackerid=20940 to the template, so that others can see that Arthmoor's confirmed it as fixed (at least if they're signed in).

Moving on from that, just to add to the confusion, it looks like there's another possibility that occurs at Stage 50 of Elder Knowledge, provided you go to the college without speaking to Arngeir, Delphine, or Esbern and have not yet joined the college. In that event, it seems as though Nirya (not Faralda!) may allow you to enter the college if you shout for her when she asks you to. It looks like she would then escort you to see Urag, doing the same lighting of the bridge fires along the way as Faralda would normally do. I'm just not clear on whether or not you'd ever actually be able to get close enough to Nirya to trigger this. There are some weak hints in the CK that perhaps Nirya was once intended to guard the bridge like Faralda does, so it's possible that this is just some leftover that wasn't properly removed. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 20:52, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Seeking Disclosure by itself does not allow you to shout to gain entry. (For one thing, it's possible to start Seeking Disclosure before Dragon Rising, and thus be unable to shout yet.) That is also true of Prophet, the other Dawnguard quest that leads you to the College. Only Elder Knowledge enables that part of the dialogue. It is possible to walk right past Faralda; just don't reply and exit her dialogue when she talks to you as you approach the bridge. Doing that won't gain you access to the College (the main door remains quest-locked) but should let you talk to Nirya, assuming she's outside (I think she stays outside during this part of this quest). If she's inside the College, then using the climb-into-the-Midden backdoor should allow you to talk to her and test dialogue that way. --Morrolan (talk) 19:18, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Personally I'd just console command her to me once I was in the area but my friends at the UPP tell me the dialogue is in the files but inconsistent and not accessible in the game even with their content restoring patch.
While Scroll Scouting/Seeking Disclosure may not unlock the shouting option of themselves they may open up a separate window to obtain the dialogue outside of the Elder Knowledge opportunity which would be worth testing.Vainamoinen -Talk -Stuff 19:28, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

(←) I'm on console, so no console commands for me. Also UESP in general doesn't document console commands, except where they can be used as workarounds for bugs, mainly because there are too many possibilities opened up by them. --Morrolan (talk) 19:53, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

You try to reach her legitimately and I'll cheat to see if the dialogue is even there. First one to get all the facts wins.Vainamoinen -Talk -Stuff 19:59, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Well, given what I'm doing in my current playthrough it's likely to be at least a week until I even start EK. That's assuming I don't get distracted again. --Morrolan (talk) 20:30, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, I forgot to post my reply earlier, so this is responding to Morrolan from a few messages up....

You're right, Morrolan, I hadn't looked closely enough at that. Seeking Disclosure actually has no bearing on whether you can shout to gain entry, only on whether Faralda will offer the line, "I seek the knowledge of the Elder Scrolls." The line to actually enter by shouting requires Stage 50 of Elder Knowledge. Nirya also requires Stage 50. In all cases, you're required to be at exactly that stage. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 20:49, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Just to follow up on the Nirya thing, she does indeed still have the dialogue available if you manage to speak to her, either by somehow getting her close enough to the gates or by climbing in through The Midden Dark, as Morrolan suggested. However, the dialogue doesn't get you anywhere in the end. She suggests that she'd like to see a shout, but won't react to it in any way. Considering how hard you have to try just to be able to speak with her without gaining entrance to the college, I don't think this is worth noting as a bug; unless someone feels otherwise, I think this post is about all the documentation of the dialogue that we need. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 19:25, 28 August 2016 (UTC)