Skyrim talk:Elder Knowledge

Mage's Guild

Be nice if we could do this quest without joining the mages guild :| - Will79

I see no place where it says you have to be in the Mages Guild. His Immortal Majesty, Eric Snowmane 03:52, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

You don"t even need to be doing the main quest in order to get the scroll.68.50.156.197 17:43, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Aftland

made some grammatical fixes, took out unneeded sentences, mostly focused on the last paragraph. in my experience, the centurion was as easily dispatched as any other centurion was, and i definitely did not find that it cast a "powerful constant effect spell that would quickly kill me regardless of my level" nor was i unable to "kill it from a distance." i dispatched it with my bow easily. of course, this character was level 34, but i've linked it to the centurion page and left a warning about the battle being more challenging for the lower levelled. — Unsigned comment by 74.98.172.95 (talk) at 05:35 on 2 December 2011

These kind of notes should be left on the edit page so they can easily be scene in the history, you also should sign all changes/additions on the discussion page, as such without going through the history of both pages no one has a clue who you are and which changes you made. (Killerchronic 20:27, 11 December 2011 (UTC))

Urag's bug

so here it says that the bug is triggered by conflict with the college questline. ive encountered the bug even i completed the questline. i have not completed all sidequests for the college, however. might that be the problem?

also, isnt there an option to just just force the speach option via console? saw that someone doing with the buying house bug in windhelm. — Unsigned comment by 94.222.113.129 (talk) at 15:29 on 17 December 2011

Stone Elder Scroll

This quest-related item weighs 20 pounds and seems unable to be dropped. Is there any way to get rid of this item? This takes out 2-3k worth of gold per dungeon delving. Really frustrating hitting encumbered because of this item.

I know there are a few temporary solutions(pots of strength for example) but I want a more permanent one. — Unsigned comment by 24.76.93.238 (talk) at 05:58 on 18 December 2011

You can sell it to the archivist in the Arcanaeum in the College of Winterhold. Tentacle 12:10, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

I thought essential quest related items didn't have weight? — Unsigned comment by 58.7.154.157 (talk) at 11:41 on 25 September 2012

Bugs with Quests

Urag gro-Shub lack the dialogue options, so I had to set this quest's stage to 80. Still, I didn't had a sphere for passage to Blackreach and Septimus doesn't want to give it to me. He also doesn't want to start his daedric quest. I stole items from him and completed this quest, but not the daedric one. Trying various console commands doesn't help. So I can't achieve "Oblivion walker" and get the "Oghma Infinium" now. — Unsigned comment by 178.206.4.29 (talk) at 06:14 on 18 December 2011

urag bug

I have the elders knowledge quest, but already had spoken to septimus and recieved his quest. Now urag doesn't have questline dialogue options. Tried reading the blades book on his desk, but did not help. Any idea on a ps3 fix for this. I'd hate to know my main questline was ruined... {{uns2|16:10, 1 January 2012|99.101.33.229}

Two books are required to be read, they will either be in the librarians inventory or on the desk.

Cause of urag bug

is it sure that the urag bug is caused by the college quests? i had that bug and it seemed to me that the bug was caused by me having already spoken to signus and got already the quest from him. that woudl also explain why signus is lagging the speech options too after procedding in the quest just oen step further (also the questmarker is set correctly). — Unsigned comment by 94.222.112.60 (talk) at 22:15 on 4 January 2012

Confusion

Completing the Quest for Hermaeus Mora will conflict with this quest if you haven't gotten to the point where you need to speak with Septimus Signus, due to the fact that he dies in the Hermaeus Mora quest. He is no longer there for you to be sent to. - Unless this has been really confirmed, isn't it common sense to know that if you've completed HM's quest, you already have the Elder Scroll... So why would you need Septimus at all? One would think there'd be a dialogue option with Paarthurnaxx along the lines of, "Oh, you mean this Elder Scroll?!" --Mikeyy 05:52, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

There is such a dialogue option. --Killfetzer 10:07, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

So is it absolutely necessary to include this line in the page if it's irrelevant anyway? --Mikey^talk_email 09:44, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes or no

Is there any way to do this quest through normal means (no console) without joining the Mages Guild?— Unsigned comment by 98.70.65.243 (talk) at 23:55 on 10 February 2012 (UTC)

EDIT: I do believe there is. I just went up to Septimus's hidey hole and got the box and the ball from him without even talking to Faralda. Can somebody please make sure the page says this clearly? I don't want anybody to get tricked into joining a guild they don't want to (Like me when I had to find Esbern). 98.70.65.243 00:12, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Elder scroll

For this quest do you have to use elder scroll dragon or can I use blood? Shadow 15:28, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

You need the Dragon one. Vely^►t►e 15:44, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

It has to be the SAME one the Nords used against Alduin, see Paarthurnax.--Br3admax 15:51, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Second Quest giver?

Given that this is part of the dawnguard questline, should the quest giver be updated to include Isran(I think he's the one that gave it to me)? Also, the prerequisite and next quests? How should it be handled?Ivan the Vandal (talk) 13:14, 20 October 2012 (GMT)

Having the Elder Scroll already

It seems the page doesn't fully recognize the option where you already have the Elder Scroll. I'd imagine it would go something like this:

Paarthurnax: To cast you back in time, I need an Elder Scroll. But I have no idea of where to find one.
You: No prob, yo. Here you are. *Brings out a soiled Scroll* Used it to clobber little children and as a sex toy mostly.
Paarthurnax: ---

Anyway, since the page doesn't say anything else, it could be true. CapnZapp (talk) 15:52, 9 December 2012 (GMT)

Achievement

I already completed "Discerning the transmundane". Will I also get the "Elder Knowledge" achievement/trophy anyway after "Throat of the World"? or the quest is skipped and the achievement/trohy lost? It should be listed as missable if that is the case. — Unsigned comment by 83.49.215.90 (talk) at 08:14 on 14 August 2013

You cannot skip this quest, just because you already have the scroll you do not miss this quest. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 17:56, 14 August 2013 (GMT)

Faralda oddness

I have not tried joining the College on my current playthrough, so talked to Faralda with only the "Elder Knowledge" quest being active and ran into some oddities. First, although the dialogue option to ask about the Elder Scrolls appeared, she only offerred me the standard test with no options about being Dragonborn. Repeated reloads got the same results (with the same Flame Atronach test which failed to register with her despite repeated castings, but that may be a different issue). After another reload, I tried the "I just want to see what's inside" option, which did get me the Dragonborn dialogue option, which got me in by shouting, but having to join the College was not part of the plan. I'm running the most recent USKP, but no other mods that affect the College, so there appears to be something hinky in there somewhere. 72.183.214.11 03:38, 6 January 2014 (GMT)

Umm....

I actually can't find a button on the tallest pedestal in the Tower of Mzark. Just some weird Dwemer carvings. — Unsigned comment by 97.86.185.171 (talk) at 01:31 on 1 August 2014

The pedestal directly to the right of that should have a button that you can press.--Auburn (talk) 19:41, 19 August 2014 (GMT)

Conflict of info/advice between "Elder Knowledge" and "Discerning the Transmundane" pages

The "Bugs" section on this page has this to say regarding the Elder Scroll:

"If you leave the Tower of Mzark without collecting the Elder Scroll and complete Discerning the Transmundane, collecting the scroll later will have no effect and this quest will be blocked."

Meanwhile, the "Notes" section on the "Discerning the Transmundane" quest page has this info about the Elder Scroll:

"It is not necessary to take the Elder Scroll during this quest. If you plan on playing for some time between this quest and completing Elder Knowledge and don't wish to carry the scroll around in between, you can leave the scroll in the Tower of Mzark after transcribing the lexicon. The location of the scroll never respawns, so you can come back for it later at any time."

Conflicting info. The second page tells us that it's safe to leave the scroll behind and retrieve it later, and the first page categorically states that leaving the scroll behind will glitch a subsequent quest involving the same scroll. Clearly, both pieces of information cannot be true. If the Bug entry on this page is meant to imply that leaving the scroll behind "might" cause a bug to occur, then the bug text should be rewritten to reflect that uncertainty, and the same info should be included on the "Discerning the Transmundane" quest page.

Wiki information must be true and consistent across related pages, otherwise the info is of no value. People come here to have their questions answered factually, not to have more questions raised or to become confused. Evil-i (talk) 22:23, 31 August 2014 (GMT)

EDIT: This Bugs Note is inaccurate, in the sense that it is not universally true for everyone 100% of the time. It mentions a scenario which may or may not happen on any particular play-through:

"If you leave the Tower of Mzark without collecting the Elder Scroll and complete Discerning the Transmundane, collecting the scroll later will have no effect and this quest will be blocked."

On my current play-through, I initiated and completed the "Discerning the Transmundane" a long time ago, long before I joined the CoW and long before meeting Paarthurnax. I left the Elder Scroll sitting in its device in the Tower of Mzark, intending to return and fetching it when the time was right. I recently advanced things to the point where the Elder Scroll is needed again. In spite of being "marked" as the current quest target, Urag the Librarian would not offer any Elder Scroll related dialogue during the Elder Knowledge quest, and I figured I'd have to complete the entire CoW quest line in order to put the train back on the tracks, as mentioned in another Bug Notes fix/workaround on this page.

Out of curiosity, I entered the Tower of Mzark and picked up the Elder Scroll anyway. Elder Knowledge immediately updated and completed, and Alduin's Bane activated. The Elder Scroll is in my inventory and is undroppable, as it should be. This experience completely contradicts the Bugs Note quoted above. Also, by adding new info, it dilutes the "this-is-the-only-way-to-fix-it" tone of "carved-in-stone" authenticity of the "fix/workaround" mentioned in this Bugs Note:

"...Urag gro-Shub will sometimes lack the dialogue options required to continue Elder Knowledge. At other times he may not even talk to you, or not place all the books on the desk.

This can be resolved by either going directly to Septimus Signus and speaking with him, or by finishing the College of Winterhold quests."

In short, it is possible, but by no means confirmed as consistently reliable, to leave the Elder Scroll and retrieve it later to progress from "Elder Knowledge" to "Alduin's Bane" without screwing up your game or jumping through CoW's hoops, in spite of the info given on this page. Evil-i (talk) 18:27, 22 September 2014 (GMT)

Further EDIT: For unexplained reasons, somebody anonymously removed the entire "EDIT" addition I posted recently. I took the liberty of re-installing it. I'm not looking for a confrontation with the Wiki old-timers who groom these pages, but I believe the info I posted is pertinent and helpful. And that should be what Wiki info is about. The addition gives further info, and contradicts some of the advice, given on the topic page.

If someone is going to undo helpful contributions, I'd really appreciate a short note of explanation from the editor regarding why it was felt that the info needed to be removed. Thanks for your consideration. Evil-i (talk) 21:11, 29 September 2014 (GMT)

I see no evidence of any of your edits being removed besides a duplicate section about using animal corpses as portable containers. No-one else has edited this talk page since August 19th, so please provide proof before making any further allegations about removal of posts. You can see the history of a page using the tab at the top of the page. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 21:34, 29 September 2014 (GMT)