Shivering talk:Creatures

I've now done Baliwogs, Elytra, Gnarls and Grummites. Posted it now, the rest comes tomorrow (missing links etc. too). The descriptions of the creatures are predominantly from the in-game book "The Shivering Bestiary", 'cause my english spelling and grammar doesn't fit the wiki's quality; could be a problem with Golden Saints, Dark Seducers, Priests and Knights of the Order... --Katan 1:43, 7 April 2007

This isn't a stub still, is it? --Quazzieclodo 22:35, 7 April 2007 (EST)

No, it isn't. I removed that flag. I'm done with it now, but - as I said it would be - it is incomplete. --Katan 8:44, 8. April 2007 (MEZ)

Finding Gnarls

where can i find Gnarls, like which caves/forts or whatever? — Unsigned comment by 80.73.213.6 (talk)

Your question is seems semi-strange in that Gnarls should literally be everywhere you turn in the Isles. Stay towards the middle of the Isles mostly (either Mania or Dementia) and you should find them almost instantly. The mountainous region in the mid-north section is full of them. The northern coast between Saints Watch and The Isle of Flame usually has some, as well as the entire southern swamp-coast of Dementia. They seem to spawn more off the roads so keep to the wilderness. They also semi-blend in with the environment, dark bluish and black for Dementia, saturated reddish brown for Mania, so keep your eyes peeled if not using detect life. As far as interiors goes, mainly and mostly look only in Root Caves (Caves), but you'll have a much greater chance of finding them simply running through the wild. --AlbinoMudcrab 16:03, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

What else?

I have a bunch of free time and this site has really helped me sometimes. Just wondering what else there is for me to do? I jsut got done revamping some things in here, and adding a description to hungers, what else ya guys need?

Creature weaknesses would be helpful.

Soul levels of each creature (ie petty, common, grand, etc)~ meryum — Unsigned comment by Meryum (talk • contribs) on 17 August 2009

They are already there, but on the individual creature pages. --Timenn-<talk> 15:02, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Knights of the Order

this may seem like a dumb question but after you complete the main quest in SL is it possible to still find the Knights of the Order in the Shivering Isles cause i need their hearts toopen the treasure chests?

If you go back to the Dark Seducer or Golden Saint base that you defended in the The Helpless Army quest, then you will find that Knights and Priests of Order continually respawn there. --Merco 16:44, 13 August 2007 (EDT)

Unoriginal, but unique

Does anybody think that the zombie- 'Uncle Leo' found at Muurines house belongs on this page? Although he is an unoriginal creature, he is unique to Shivering Isles. Another example of this would be Ushnars hounds.--Willyhead 14:03, 14 August 2007 (EDT)

I believe that why there are no references to Uncle Leo or Ushnars hounds are mentioned on this page because it is not necessary to fight them-Mr. V 21:07, 15 August 2007 (EDT)

They still count as creatures and you are able to fight them- if you attack them. Another Unoriginal but unique creature is Bregor the Cromater who resides in Ebrocca- and he DOES attack you on sight. I think these examples should at least be mentioned, or if not put in a seperate section.--Willyhead 09:31, 16 August 2007 (EDT)

I've now added 'Unoriginal but Unique' as a new category- If anybody disagrees with me adding it, speak up and let your opinion be heard.--Willyhead 11:20, 16 August 2007 (EDT)

Clearing up a problem

Could someone just confirm if in the Shivering Isles, there are only the new creatures, or if Oblivion ones are also in there, e.g Skeletons and bears. — Unsigned comment by Merco (talk • contribs)

Most of the lists used to generate creatures in SI only use the new SI-specific creatures. However, there are a few exceptions. In particular, the Undead leveled lists will spawn skeletons (regular, guardian, hero, or champion varieties) as well as flesh atronachs, shambles, or skinned hounds. --Nephele^Talk 13:26, 15 August 2007 (EDT)

Detailed creature info

As requested on the Task List I've started working on the resistances/weaknesses of the creatures, as well as modeling them after their Oblivion counterparts. The resultant tables are too expansive to all be put on one page, so it is not a bad idea to create additional pages. The question is on how to do this. One solution is to give every creature group (e.g. Elytra) a seperate page. As there are usually multiple variants of a single creature, this gives these pages enough content to validate their existence.
Two examples can be found here.
If this is done it will mean that this page can be reduced to giving summaries of the creatures, instead of providing every bit of information. I'm also wondering if such fields as "Combat" or "Fatigue" are necessary. --Timenn 15:12, 5 November 2007 (EST)

If we're going by the Oblivion examples (and I'm admittedly somewhat biased having set up the Oblivion pages!), then we could set up pages based upon the groups used in standard leveled lists. So that would correspond roughly to the level-2 headers on this page. Balliwogs, Elytras, Gnarls, and Scalons all appear together on various "SELL2Natural" lists. Grummites would probably get their own page (analogous to Goblins, somewhat). Flesh Atronachs, Shambles, and Skinned Hounds are all on the "SELL2Undead" lists. However, the SI leveled lists are a more confusing mess than the Oblivion ones, and creatures like Hungers don't have an obvious home. Also as your example clearly shows there can be a lot of extra variants. So I could also see giving each group its own page.

There are additional variables for creatures that haven't been documented on the Oblivion pages. In part because it's not clear (to me at least) what some of those variables really do. Spell points, fatigue, combat, magic, stealth, the standard eight attributes.... I'd like to have some idea that the variables have an effect on gameplay before trying to figure out how to squeeze them into a table. I have some guesses about the variables (spell points is just magicka, of course, for spellcasting creatures; combat seems to affect some generic combat perks, such as disarming and paralysis; magic skill might affect all spell costs across the board, regardless of school; stealth probably controls how well creatures detect you when you're sneaking). While we're at contemplating variables, there's also the creature's level (not the character level at which the creature appears). Adding it is likely to add to confusion but yet it's also relevant for spells such as Command Creature.

Staring at the tables, one thing that seems possible right now (at least based on the Elytra example) is to get rid of the "Carries" column, which would give room for a few more columns of numbers. The "Carries" column seems to be pretty much identical in all cases, so it could possibly be replaced by an introductory statement "all of the following Elytra carry x". Just one idea, but if you've got any better ones, feel free to go with those instead :) --Nephele^Talk 23:21, 13 November 2007 (EST)

The way the creatures should be divided over the subpages depends on the amount of varieties there are of a specefic creature. Scalons (5) and Baliwogs (6) are the only creatures with a small amount of varieties (excluding test and template ones). Because there are plenty of varieties of the other creatures I think that validates giving every creature its own page.

I agree that the "Carries" field may be dropped (and instead putting it in the creature's description) and adding a few new fields. Which fields are relevant to add? Spell points is good to add, but only for casters. This will work if the magic attacks have the magicka cost added. Fatigue, however, is not relevant enough to add. There are only a few attacks the player can do that drain fatigue, and it regenerates too fast for anyone to get a good picture on how many attacks they have to perform to fully drain the creature's fatigue. The combat, magic and stealth skills don't really stand on their own. They influence the creature's properties, but nothing a reader can easily picture.

I thought the level listed in the column was the creature's level?

As for possible additional values; attack reach, factions, seperate field for attack damage?

Attack reach would only be valid if there is enough space left. Factions are mostly the same. But splitting the attack damage away from the magical attacks would be a good idea. Almost every creature has a melee attack. --Timenn 15:56, 14 November 2007 (EST)

On the Oblivion creature pages, where level is currently provided it is the character level at which the creature first appears. It's not provided by default with all creatures, but only in the initial table that provides the standard leveled lists (e.g., under Oblivion:Animals#Standard, see the note for "The level provided for each creature in the Lvl column...") and with any customized leveled lists used to generate creatures (e.g., under Oblivion:Rumare Slaughterfish). Other tables (e.g., Oblivion:Dog) do not provide any level information on the creatures. To some extent, the way level is currently provided is consistent with other tables on the site (e.g., Leveled Items, etc.) all of which focus on the character's level.

The other place where level is mentioned on the creatures is, for example, to provide a leveled creature's health, e.g., the Spectral Mud Crab's health is "13×(lvl+5)". The "lvl" in all such equations (at least on the Oblivion pages) is always the character's level. So instead of stating that MudCrabLevel = PCLevel+5, MudCrabHealth=MudCrabLevel*13, it was all combined into a single equation using only the character's level.

As for what's on the Shivering creature pages right now, I'd guess that the level column probably is the creature's level, which is useful information. I'm just not sure how to go about clarifying what "Level" or "Lvl" means when it appears on a creature page. I think we may need to come up with some slightly more descriptive labels to remove any ambiguity.

As for any other changes you'd like to make, your ideas all look good to me. --Nephele^Talk 17:50, 30 November 2007 (EST)

Ok, we just discussed (IRC) a possible solution for the "lvl" issue. (Use a new abbreviation "CLvl" to refer to the creature's level. A wiki link to a template will do all the possible explanationary work) I think Shivering:Creatures can be a good page to try out what readers make of it. The main page about creatures could provide the information on which player's level (PC) the creature first appears on (like on Oblivion:Creatures).

I was planning to stick to the latest example I've added to my sandbox page. Though I will merge the "melee attack" column back into the "attacks" column.

Should I just start with just creating a first page for, e.g. the Elytra. Then, when every creature has been finished (i.e. has its own page) reduce this page to the leveled lists and brief descriptions with links to the creatures? --Timenn < talk > 14:07, 1 December 2007 (EST)

Failed Experiment and the Gray Cowl

To 68.88.167.155 - you've twice stated that the Gray Cowl allows you to detect the Failed Experiments before they stand up and I've twice removed it after twice having gone to check. Please can you post some proof on this matter? Thanks. --Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 16:03, 15 November 2007 (EST)

Meeting standards

I've modified Baliwogs' table to meet the standard of Oblivion tables describing creatures.
I think I will modify the other tables of this page in the next few days.
Any suggestions are welcome!
FstTesla^T 14:58, 11 January 2008 (GMT+1)

Looks good to me! Thanks for taking it on. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 09:08, 11 January 2008 (EST)

There is currently a project to model the entire Shivering:Creatures page after the Oblivion:Creatures. This is still work in progress, and currently only the Baliwog, Elytra and Gnarl pages have been done. The idea is to give every creature group its own page (which differs from Oblivion:Creatures, but the Shivering Isles usually has more types of a single creature). I'm sorry I've not posted a Work-in-Progress notice on this page to prevent duplicated effort.

However, thanks for your contribution. If you want to help with the work, you can continue with the creatures that not yet have their own page.

Please keep a few changes in mind when modelling them after Oblivion:Creatures:

• A column for Magicka is added, even for creatures without spells. (Useful for e.g. Absorb Magicka)
• For the special varieties that share the same name as the standard creature, the internal name (found in the Construction Set) is added as well. To distinguish them from the others.
• Creature Level refers to the level of the creature encountered, not the minimum level the player has to be to encounter the creature.
• Use of the Lvl Template (instead of PC or lvl) in formulaes. This template automatically adds hover text to Lvl to explain its function to readers.

--Timenn < talk > 10:24, 11 January 2008 (EST)

As you can see, at the moment I'm occupied with the creation of the Grummites page. I hope this contribution will be appreciated.

FstTesla^T 17:13, 14 January 2008 (GMT+1)

It's appreciated and it looks good. The Grummites seem to carry a great deal more loot than most creatures, so we may have to think of a fitting solution for that. Second, I had the tendency to merge the Spells and Attacks, and just list them all under Attacks. That may seem strange for some spells, but the header can always be changed if necessary, and this will leave more room for the spells. Third, some properties that are always zero (like Resist Shock) can be left out. --Timenn < talk > 17:36, 14 January 2008 (EST)

Grummites carry lots of loot, but fortunately it's almost the same in all forms, so copy-paste works great and anyway you can always write something like See above.

Surely it's not a bad idea to merge Attacks and Spells, but it would be odd putting a Spell on Self (typically a Restoration Spell) in the Attacks column.

Finally, I left Resist Shock because I haven't checked out yet if all Grummites have this property set to 0, but if you can assure me that the answer is yes, then well the column will be removed in the end.

&#151;FstTesla^T, 12.54, 15 January 2008 (GMT+1)

Another trick you could try is using a rowspan=2 property for the Carries colum. This will give more room to describe all loot in, and will suggest it is shared by all involved creatures.

There are only a few Grummite types having a "on Self" spell. I think it might be worth trying to put multiple fields under the Attack header. I played around with an example.

I'm not sure if you have noticed them, but there are an awful lot of template Grummites to be found in the CS. They only function as behaviourial templates for Leveled Creature Lists (Creature Template field) and they don't appear in the game at all. They need not to be mentioned in the article. (That will save you some work :)) --Timenn < talk > 08:39, 15 January 2008 (EST)

I need to find me some Baliwogs. Lots of them.

I am hunting Baliwogs, and even though I am sticking next to the water I find very few Baliwogs, but countless Scalons. Any ideas on how I can find more Baliwogs? If the information is relevant to my problem, I am hunting in Dementia and I am level 33.

EDIT: On another unrelated but slightly amusing note, Gnarls sink when killed in water. You'd think, them being made of wood and all, that they would float just like every other creature in the game.

--Mole126 23:44, 13 February (EST)

It's hard to give a definite answer on where best to find Baliwogs. There are several places where you will find a guaranteed Baliwog, but they are scattered all over the Isles. There are more of those in Mania then there are in Dementia, but the number is limited (although they do respawn).

Another tip I can give you is to look in the water. The creatures spawned there are mostly Scalons and Baliwogs (2:1). --Timenn < talk > 06:31, 14 February 2008 (EST)

Seperate Daedra Page?

Does anyone else think that the Shivering Isles Daedra should have their own seperate stats page like the Oblivion:Daedra page? (Gadianzero 02:11, 31 December 2008 (EST))

Another question, I'm on the Xbox 360 and I was wondering if there was any way to look up the stats info on anything or is there no way without the PC version? (Gadianzero 02:11, 31 December 2008 (EST))

There are only two Daedric creatures added by the Shivering Isles, so I don't think they deserve their own page. Also, I believe this article has just about the right length, so there is little need to split it up.

Most stats are retrieved by using the Construction Set, which is only available for the PC. --Timenn < talk > 06:40, 31 December 2008 (EST)

-Aren't Dark Seducers, Goldent Saints, Hungers, Flesh Atronach, and possibly the Knights of Order all considered Daedra? (Gadianzero 07:55, 31 December 2008 (EST))

Missing Creature?

what about the failed experiments at relmyna's santuary should that go on the page?--Thedrunknord 17:33, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Regeneration FormID

There are several Form IDs for the water regeneration ability. This one, 5ec6d, works as described if you apply it to your own character.

Are SI creatures all technically Daedra?

They all live within the Planes of Oblivion..but their origins are no where clear to me, especially the Gnarl (perhaps creations of Sheogorath?). Can a lore master clear this up for me? Axxchor 23:53, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Accuracy leveled lists

Im wondering how the leveled lists of the Shivering Isles work. In Cyrodiil, usually a boss version is encountered 2 levels earlier, with the exception of spriggans. Yet I´ve a level 10 character who encounters a boss Shambles in Xavara... Is the leveled list accurate or not? --C0rTeZ48 (talk) 22:00, 13 March 2021 (UTC)