Oblivion talk:Unique Items/Archive 1

This is an archive of past Oblivion talk:Unique Items discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Frostwyrm Bow

As far as I can tell, this seems to be the right place to provide info on the Frostwyrm Bow (I only know of one in the game, and based on the stats being identical for a level 9 and a level 28 character, it seems to be non-levelled). But I'm on an XBox, so I can't figure out most of the stats needed for this table. It looks like an Elven bow, but the weight is more than an Elven bow, so I don't even dare to guess at numbers. Any PCers who could help me out? --Nephele 22:59, 1 June 2006 (EDT)

Brusef Amelion's Armor

Will someone please add the Brusef Amelion Armor, as I have found all of it in-game, and it is not in here, as far as I can tell. I would do it myself, but I have found it only recently, and do not know the statistics, or if it is leveled or not.

Not levelled. I think it should maybe be all on it's own page or something, considering it's all found in the same location. Thinking of creating a seperate location for Quest-related unique items like this, not sure. -- TheRealLurlock 22:00, 3 June 2006 (EDT)

Quest Items?

Do unique non-levelled items that are specifically related to quests belong here? Thinking about the Grey Cowl of Nocturnal, Boots of Springheel Jak, stuff like that. -- TheRealLurlock 19:23, 3 June 2006 (EDT)

Response to both Brusef, and Quest: We were having a discussion on the Oblivion:Artifacts page about what items are considered "artifacts." Your excellent working definition was the items with unique appearances (w/o falling into another category like leveled items). So in that sense I compiled a list of those items, and both Brusef's armor and the Cowl are there. Other minor quest items can be safely covered on the individual quest pages. There shouldn't be too many of these that people are genuinely interested in, if any. Boots of Springheel Jak I'd say belong here with a note as to what quest they are found in, just like Calliben's Retort. --Thehankerchief 19:13, 4 June 2006 (EDT)

Values of Items?

I was wondering where the values for the items listed on this page came from, because they're very different from the values I'm seeing in the game - at least for both of the items I just checked. Apron of the Master Artisan was listed at 1900; I get 4000. Cowl of the Druid was listed at 2200; I get 3800. Both of my values are for the items after I've purchased them and they are listed in my inventory. In other words, they're not the marked-up prices that the vendors sold them to me for. The properties are identical to those listed on the page, so it doesn't appear to be levelling. Is there any other reason why the prices of these unique items would differ so much?--Nephele 21:09, 24 June 2006 (EDT)

In most cases, the value of the items here are probably those listed in the Construction Set, which unfortunately does not include the price of the enchantments on the item. To calculate the actual value, check out the chart here: Spell Effects. Whatever value you get should be added to the value listed in the CS. I've been meaning to go through and do this one of these days, but it's a bunch of work. I've already done it for many of the weapons, but that's a much easier calculation. (See: Magic Items Value for that.) Alternatively, you could go into the game, see what the values are and just write them down, also a bit of work. (Might be worth it to print out the list with all the item IDs on them, and then just use the console to give yourself the items so you don't have to actually find the items when you're doing this.) Anyhow, if you want to take it on, be my guest. I wasn't looking forward to that particular task. --TheRealLurlock 22:51, 24 June 2006 (EDT)

Since I'm playing on an XBox, I can't take advantage of any console shortcuts. And I've already got a few things on my Oblivion todo list (e.g., this came up as part of investigating Fortify Alchemy, which happens to be a worthless enchantment). So I won't be volunteering to take on the task of figuring out all the values any time soon. But as I come across items, I'll try to fill in their values.--Nephele 01:56, 25 June 2006 (EDT)

I have just added Parentheses of Uncertainty^TM to all of the items on this page whose listed prices I know to be incorrect. Basically, I went through the CS, and if the prices listed were the same as what the CS, I know they're wrong, because this listing does not take enchantments into account. For those numbers that didn't match, I assume that somebody got those numbers from actual experience, (or else where did they come from?) so hopefully they're correct. As for all the Merhunes Razor stuff, I don't have that plug-in, so I know nothing about those. Somebody else needs to complete those. (They're also missing IDs and other info in most cases.) --TheRealLurlock 18:59, 2 July 2006 (EDT)

Voltag

Not sure where this item goes, Unique, Leveled, Special/Random (etc.), but I found no mention of it any where here except for its Item Code and name: "0003BF62 - Voltag". At any rate, I'll let you all determine where it goes. It's an Ebony Mace, and when I found it on a Golin Warlord in Exhausted Mine at Level 39 while doing the Harm's Folly Misc Quest, it had the following:

1. Value 2154
2. Weight 39
3. Shock Damage 16 pts on Strike
4. Weakness to Shock 35% for 10 secs on Strike
5. 1600 Charges @ 44 Uses

I found it on a bandit at an unmarked camp somewhere east of Bruma. It was an ebony mace with the same enchantment, but I guess that means it's not unique.

Ring of Vitality

Here's another one to add, and I didn't even find the Item Code here, let alone the item name. Taken at Level 39 from a Dremora Valkynaz within the Rending Halls of the main tower in the Oblivion Gate north of Meridia's Shrine:

1. Code 000489DD
2. Value 6100
3. Weight 0.1
4. Resist Disease 100% on Self
5. Resist Poison 100% on Self
6. Resist Paralysis 100% on Self

Both this and Voltag belong under Magic Items. They're random loot, so it's possible to get more than one. Thus, they're not unique. I will be working on that page as soon as I finish the Generic Magic Items page. --TheRealLurlock 20:16, 9 July 2006 (EDT)

Thanks Lurlock, I guess you can remove them from here then if you're already aware of them. ~<}:^> --GreyElf 20:48, 9 July 2006 (EDT)

Just so you know, there's a list of the items that belong on the Magic Items page on Oblivion Talk:Magic Items. So if you find something you're not sure of, check there, check here, check [[Oblivion:Generic Magic Items]] (complete in names, some stats are still missing), and check Oblivion:Leveled Items (almost certainly complete). If it's not in any of those places, then you may have found something. --TheRealLurlock 22:05, 9 July 2006 (EDT)

Spectre Ring

Re: It may not be possible to acquire this ring, since the container it's in is mistakenly labelled as belonging to Ris Fralmoton, a horse-seller who I'm not sure is in the game. If anyone can confirm/refute this, please do so. — Unsigned comment by TheRealLurlock (talk • contribs)

I can confirm that I've gone to Hamlof to try to buy this ring a few times, and never had any luck. I've never seen it appear in his inventory of items he'll sell. So seems like this may indeed be another glitch. --Nephele 14:17, 29 July 2006 (EDT)

• How to acquire the ring:

There are two ways, but both require console codes, so won't work for X-Boxers. The first is to simply give it to yourself:

addItem 000CA12A 1

Sure, that was easy, but it just doesn't feel right. So instead, you can try this. Go to Red Diamond Jewelery, open console and type:

tcl

then "walk" underneath the floor of the store and look for a floating chest under the stairs. Unfortunately, it's locked, and needs a key. However, such a key does not exist in the game, so you'll have to fake it. Open console again, and click on the chest. Type:

unlock

You can now open the chest and take the ring inside it. To ease your conscience, leave whatever you feel an appropriate amount of gold is in the chest. Walk back above the floor and type

tcl

again, and leave with a nice new ring. Hey, I figure it's not cheating if the devs made a mistake and you're just correcting it.

--TheRealLurlock 23:49, 15 August 2006 (EDT)

Actually, there's a third way - I took pity upon the poor unassigned Spectre Ring and Councillor's Hood, and created two separate fixes for each of these items. They're available here --Lovykar 02:32, 16 November 2006 (EST)

I swear I've been offered this ring when in the Imperial City Market Jewelery Shop. I remember not buying it on account of my warrior not wanting lowered strength. This ought to be investigated, because I remember seeing it before reading that it didn't exist. Unfortunately, as an xboxer, I can no longer find it. Curious.

Just a quick note. The ownership of the Spectre Ring is one of the many things fixed by the UOP.--Gaebrial 08:19, 3 October 2007 (EDT)

Mehrunes Razor

Should the Mehrunes Razor items be listed on this page? I don't have the plugin, so I don't know. But first of all, the items are all listed on the Unearthing Mehrunes Razor page, and secondly, they're all leveled, so they probably don't belong here. Any opinions? --TheRealLurlock 23:38, 15 August 2006 (EDT)

IMHO, all plug-in items could stay on their respective plugin pages, as most readers will not have all (or perhaps) any of the plugins. None of the plugins seems to have so many unique or levelled items that they can't stay on their respective pages. Then the plugin index could be listed as an additional resource for item data. --Actreal 23:46, 15 August 2006 (EDT)

I agree, plugin items on their own pages. --Thehankerchief 02:47, 16 August 2006 (EDT)

Ring of Wortcraft

In response to User:I Feel Quilty's comment: "This ring may not show up until a specific level or until a particular quest has been completed, as I have yet to see it in Falanu Hlaalu's inventory". I have definitely been able to purchase it from Falanu, so it is available in game. But I'm not sure offhand what level I was at the time, so it's possible I had met some unknown requirements. --Nephele 18:43, 20 September 2006 (EDT)

Mystery solved: you need to be journeyman level in mercantile for it to show up. By default, Falanu does not sell clothes/rings, and therefore even though she has the ring in her inventory it won't show up in the buy/sell menus. You need the Journeyman-level perk, "A Journeyman can sell any goods to any vendor" (which also allows allows to buy any type of good from a vendor). I tested this with a character who was mercantile=48 (no ring); went and bought two levels of mercantile training; returned to Falanu, and voila, the ring appeared. In a quick scan of the other unique items for sale, I didn't notice any others that should have the same problem (i.e., they are all types of items that their vendors by default will buy/sell). --Nephele 21:34, 20 September 2006 (EDT)

Umbra's Armor Set

It is possible to loot the Ebony Armor that Umbra has. That qualifies for a Unique Set, right? 24.218.57.174 04:17, 31 January 2007 (EST)

This page primarily provides information on unique magical items. Umbra's armor is listed on Oblivion:Other_Specialty_Gear, and it's stats are also provided on Umbra's page. --Nephele 11:59, 31 January 2007 (EST)

If this is a page on magical items, why are the Honorblade of Chorrol and the Languorwine Blade listed when they both state no magic effects? 76.104.191.151 17:18, 3 July 2007 (EDT)

Where is Fin Gleam?!?

I have looked underwater on the west coast on the island west of anvil and I cannot find it. Can anyone give me any more specific directions? Please? Pappasmurf 17:27, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

Try looking here. --Nephele 19:02, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

Ah, thanks :) Pappasmurf 19:22, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

Quite the bump here, but Fin Gleam is not listed on the unique item pages. It is also not listed on the artifacts page. Isn't it one/both of those?

Ummm, Fin Gleam is listed exactly where it supposed to be, under Oblivion:Unique Items#Unique Helmets. And there's also a redirect that takes you straight there if you type in Fin Gleam. I'm not sure what you mean by it "is not listed". --Nephele^Talk 14:15, 21 February 2008 (EST)

Upon closer inspection, I'm not sure what I mean either. My mistake.

Boots of the Atronach

I don't see this very unique item here. It is a very impressive Heavy Armor:

• Resist Fire 50% on Self
• Resist Frost 50% on Self
• Resist Shock 50% on Self

I found it in a normal, non-boss chest in Oblivion:Mongrel's Tooth Cave in the northern most chamber. I'm using Xbox Oblivion 1.2.1. Am I just lucky? The item is listed in Oblivion:ConsoleItemCodes. Should it not be listed on this page? Therefore 00:28, 5 May 2007 (EDT)

It's not a unique item: a unique item is one that you can only ever find a single copy of. It's possible to find multiple copies of the Boots of the Atronach, because they randomly appear in chests anywhere in the game once you're high enough level. They're listed at Oblivion:Boots of the Atronach with other similar items that are randomly found in loot. --Nephele^Talk 00:34, 5 May 2007 (EDT)

Sortable Tables!!

A trick I just learned from Wikipedia - not sure if it was possible before the most recent update or not, but thought I'd get people's input before doing all of them like this. Take a look at the Blades section on this page. You can now click the little buttons on the headers to order them by name, weight, health, value, or damage. (The other columns also have buttons, but clicking those sort-buttons seems to have an unusual effect of just jumping you to the top of the page. I'm trying to determine if there's a way to make some columns not-sortable in order to avoid this.) Anyhow, feedback? Love it, hate it? Let me know. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 12:32, 17 May 2007 (EDT)

Okay, fixed the unsortable columns. I had to move the sub-headers saying "1-hand"/"2-hand" into chart titles in order to prevent them from being sorted with everything else. (I'd already split it into 2 charts since it didn't make sense to sort 1- and 2-handed weapons inter-mixed with eachother. Any thoughts? --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 12:52, 17 May 2007 (EDT)

Very nice...didn't know this was even possible. -- Daveh 13:21, 17 May 2007 (EDT)

I don't think it was before the latest upgrade. This page says it was added in 1.09. We were running 1.08 before, right? Anyhow, I'd been seeing these on some Wikipedia pages for a few months. Wasn't sure if it was a matter of installing a plugin of some sort or what, but I figured I'd try it out. If there are no complaints, I'll start doing this to any table I can find that would benefit. I'll let people test-drive it for a bit, though. Not sure if it's compatible with all browsers and stuff like that. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 13:51, 17 May 2007 (EDT)

While it's a nice feature to have available, I'm not sure how useful it is on tables that are only three or four lines long. And if adding "sortable" means that a table like the Unique Blades list has to be split into two, and the headers have to be moved outside of the table where they're much less visible, then my first reaction is that the sortable feature is making the tables harder to use rather than easier to use. Also, I'd like to know for sure what it's going to do with some of the other table layouts that we have. For example, the big tables on Oblivion:Potions seem like a better candidate for sorting, except that it has rowspans, and I have no idea what it would do with those. Basically, I'm inclined to be somewhat conservative about using "sortable," i.e., only do it on relatively large tables and in cases where it doesn't require the table to be revamped in order to implement it. --Nephele^Talk 14:26, 17 May 2007 (EDT)

Well, if the only complaint is splitting the tables and moving the headers, I'm sure we can come up with a way to make the headers more visible. Splitting the table doesn't really seem like a problem to me, though. As for the Potions table, that would REALLY require some revamping, due to the rowspans. This page was simple enough that it's not that big a deal - though I understand your point about it not being that big a deal on such small charts. Other places I was thinking about would be Oblivion:Ingredients, (though that's got some rowspan/colspan stuff that might complicate it), Oblivion:Spells and Oblivion:Magical Effects, (add a sortable column for "School"), maybe a few others. Obviously, in most cases it would involve a severe re-work of how these charts are presented, whereas the Unique Items page requires the least actual change. Anyhow, it's nice to know the option exists if we can find a good place to take advantage of it... --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 15:52, 17 May 2007 (EDT)

Languorwine Blade

Here's another one to add. I'm Xbox so I can't find the Item Code here. Maybe someone else could add the blade. It's a quest item from The Assassinated Man --Robert Smith 11:43, 19 May 2007 (EDT)

Done. Thanks for pointing that out. --Nephele^Talk 13:28, 19 May 2007 (EDT)

But it's not enchanted. It has a script attached to it that kills the person in the quest with one strike, but that's it, it's just a script. Not a enchantment. 77BeTa77 13:58, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

But it is a unique item. The fact it isn't enchanted doesn't make a difference. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 14:27, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

Oh? Umbra's armor is unique too. But I don't see that added. Before you say "it's just ebony armor ", Lagourwine is just a sliver dagger. Before you say "it's not magical", neither is the Lagourwine blade. 77BeTa77 14:42, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

Umbra's armor is here. I'm not quite sure why it's been put on a different page - possibly because there are two versions of it. If you feel it should be on here you could always move it yourself. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 14:55, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

Blackwood Ring of Silence

Don't know if it needs to be corrected, but it says that if you have at least 100% Fire Resistance you can wear the ring for crazy visuals (but nothing else). I have an unlimited rings mod running, I'm wearing a ring that gives 30 fire resistance, one that gives 20 fire resistance, and I'm a Dark Elf (75% Inherent Fire Resistance), 125% Fire Resistance total. When I put the thing on, it burned through my life in about two seconds. I think this needs testing. --Anonymous 17:54, 28 May 2007 (EDT)

Perhaps such things inverse-multiply rather than accumulate, so you can't have more than 100%: So 20%, 30% and 75% would combine to 86% (or a simpler example: two lots of 50% combine to 75%) --nemo

I've deleted the comment:

If you manage to get 100% Resist Fire, the ring provides a nice visual effect, especially combined with Daedric armor. Resist Magic and Spell Absorption are not sufficient, as constant effect enchantments ignore both.)

I've been completely unable to reproduce it. I've tried potions, spells, and enchanted items. I even used the console to give myself 175% fire resistance as an ability (both Dark Elf fire resistance and Flame Atronach fire resistance ability), since abilities tend to trump all other types of magical effects. At one point, I had a total of 240% fire resistance, 110% magic resistance, and no weakness to fire, and still took just as much damage from the ring as without any of the effects. And, FYI, resistances do just add together (see Resistances and Weaknesses): 20%+30%+75% = 125%. Even if you're skeptical of that, my tests covered that case, too, since the Flame Atronach fire resistance is by itself a 100% effect. --Nephele^Talk 11:28, 20 June 2007 (EDT)

its possible after the 1.2 patch resist magic/fire does not affect what you cast upon yourself, since weakness to magic does not have a effect for spells you cast on yourself either.

The Blackwood ring has a script which ignores fire resistances, just like the poisoned Apples from the Dark brotherhood quest. The poison here bypasses poison resistances, so if an Argonian eats such an apple, he is dead Meat. — Unsigned comment by 84.175.98.151 (talk)

Umm, sorry, not really.... The Blackwood ring does not have a script, it just has an enchantment. And I don't really see the connection to the Poisoned Apples. Yes, those apples have a script, but the script doesn't make use of a poison effect (it's a magical Damage Health ability). So it's not a matter of the poisoned apples bypassing poison resistance; rather, it's that the name is misleading because the apples don't really contain any "poison." Whereas the Blackwood ring really does work by causing fire damage. Although there are clearly still some questions surrounding the Blackwood ring, it really doesn't help the confusion to add incorrect and misleading statements to the discussion. --Nephele^Talk 23:21, 21 February 2008 (EST)

Black Hand robes and hoods

Here are two more to add. I'm Xbox so I can't find the Item Code here. Maybe someone else could add the clothes. It's a quest item from Honor Thy Mother. --Robert Smith 16:04, 11 June 2007 (EDT)

They're not unique. You can find at least one other set, in J'Ghasta's house first floor in a keg with a very hard lock, and, unless I'm mistaken, you can loot them off the bodies of your fellow Black Hand members. -Pwnzerfaust

You can definitely loot them, I killed lucien because I didn't want to be bothered by the Dark Brotherhood, and he had them on him. Zaybertamer 18:03, 7 July 2007 (EDT)

I was wondering if it's possible to get, either via console or mod, unenchanted versions of the Black Hand robe and hood? I love the way it looks - with shoes and gloves included - but I'd like to add my own enchantments to it. I've tried a glove mod, but it didn't work properly. So something which just adds an unenchanted version of these items would be very, very desierable. Thanks.

Sort of. The Black Hood and Black Robe are similar, or you could use the Dark Shirt and Black Wide Pants instead of the robe. --Rpeh^Talk 08:03, 27 September 2007 (EDT)

Hi - I've been using the black robe and hood up until now. But the BH stuff has shoes and gloves included and looks much cooler as a result. That's why I was wondering if the enchantment could be removed...

I'd never noticed the gloves and boots! Shows how little I use the armor, I suppose. No - there's no way of removing the enchantment, I'm afraid. You'll just have to find the darkest items you can. --Rpeh^Talk 13:14, 27 September 2007 (EDT)

Drat, looks like I'll have to learn how to use the Construction Set then. I've been lead to believe I can make a clone in that without the enchantments. Cheers.

Flame Ring

I couldnt find the ID in the CS...could someone look into this? It has 100% fire resistance. Thanks.

Did you try the search box? It works very well and in this case would direct you here. --Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 01:50, 6 December 2007 (EST)

Blades Blades

Would someone add the blades of the Blades of the first dungeon? Helper Unknown.

Done. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 07:09, 11 January 2008 (EST)

Staves

There are unique staves in the game if I am not mistaken, but none are listed here. Is this how you guys wanted it to be? I see most (if not all) other unique stuff on here, but not the staves. — Unsigned comment by Alaston (talk • contribs)

Staves are on the Staves page. You might want to try using the search function... –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 14:18, 21 February 2008 (EST)

Currently all of the staves are listed on Oblivion:Staves, including unique and leveled ones. Admittedly, it is somewhat inconsistent with the other weapons. But the Unique Items article is already overly long, so I'm not sure it's worth making it even longer. There may perhaps even be a need to split this page up, into Unique Weapons, Unique Armor, and Unique Clothing, similar to what's been done for Morrowind. But I don't know that such a major reorganization is a high priority right now. --Nephele^Talk 14:20, 21 February 2008 (EST)

Rpeh wrote, "Staves are on the Staves page. You might want to try using the search function..." While the condescension and sarcasm are appreciated (no, not really, feel free to stick it and stay the Hell away from me), this doesn't address the issue that every type of unique item in the game is listed on the page aptly named "Unique Items." The title is not "Unique Items except for Staves." It includes swords, blunts, helms and various other items, so I'm asserting that it's an error that staves are not listed here as well.

As for the smart-ass remark itself, I did search and found the items, but they are not where they belong. If you're going to continue to be a jackass, feel free to do so so long as you also continue the trend of making yourself look like a pompous idiot in the process. Otherwise, back the Hell off. --Alaston

Okay that was totally uncalled for. You had just asked two questions about items that are perfectly easy to find using the search function and I was suggesting that you used it. I wasn't being sarcastic or condescending, I was trying to be helpful. If you had made your comment about the staves page clearer I would have understood it first time around. Lastly, don't make personal attacks. They are against site policy and will be dealt with accordingly. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 16:33, 21 February 2008 (EST)

No, what's totally uncalled for is your trollish, unhelpful comment that is obviously meant to provoke a fight and does nothing to help the conversation, along with the fact that it makes no sense that all the other items are on the unique items page except for staves. You obviously saw what you thought was a chance to make me look stupid and tripped over your own two feet going after it. While I appreciate that you made yourself look badly in the process of trying to fight with me, I'd prefer it if you simply kept your distance - or grew up. Whichever comes first is fine with me, I just hope you pick one of the two in the near future. --Alaston

Okay guys, seriously, that's enough. Rpeh, I understand that you weren't intending to be sarcastic with your comment, but I do see how it could be taken that way. Regardless of the intent behind the comment, there's no call for either of you to overreact like this. Remember, when you get right down to it, we're all intelligent, reasonable human beings who share a common goal. We don't all have to get along, but we do need to be civil to one another.

Alaston, I really appreciate your interest in the wiki and your insight into some issues other editors may not have noticed yet. It's always great to get helpful new editors and I hope you'll continue down that path. My guess as to the reasoning behind rpeh's earlier comment is that sometimes more experienced editors forget that newer users aren't as familiar with the site. Sometimes we need reminding of that so we don't get frustrated.

Anyway, like I said, I'm sure rpeh did not mean any offense by his comment. It's difficult to interpret tone through casual text like this, particularly when we have users from a wide variety of countries and cultures. Please keep that in mind in the future. Nobody meant any offense, even if that might be the impression you initially get from a comment. Alos, rpeh's right--we don't tolerate personal attacks here, so please remember to be civil. Squabbling isn't going to get us anywhere. --Eshe^talk01:16, 22 February 2008 (EST)

I understand and appreciate the manner and time it took to make that reply, Eshe. Thank you. That said, I consider an insinuation that I'm an idiot to be a personal attack as well. His actions do not excuse my own, nor would I attempt to portray such a case. I apologize for my actions, and take responsibility for them. I'll do my best not to do it again. All I'm asking for is that if he can't behave with mutual respect, that he find someone else to interact with. If there's an issue he feels needs to be addressed with me, he's quite capable of having an admin do it, as shown in this thread. All I'm looking for his for him to find another target. I'm not interested and would prefer not to deal with it. --Alaston

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here. Rpeh is an admin and what's happening here is a case of other community members stepping in to help resolve the situation. What I was trying to explain to you before is that the comment was almost certainly not meant to insinuate anything negative about you. As I've said before, you're clearly an intelligent human being and it would be silly to accuse you of being otherwise. In any case, I for one would appreciate a civil conclusion to this. Nothing can be gained from starting a discussion, losing our tempers, and then leaving the issue unresolved.

Please understand that if you intend to continue being a member of this community you will have to work with everyone else who is a part of it, directly or otherwise. Actively avoiding other editors will only cause tension and probably further conflict. You don't have to like each other, but you should play nice anyway :). --Eshe^talk11:15, 22 February 2008 (EST)

Understood, Eshe. I think we disagree on the nature of the comment. I can agree to disagree and give your way another try. I don't see any point in us bickering over the two interpretations of his comment. I'll go along with your version of it and time will tell the rest. Thanks again for your time. --Alaston

So, back to the issue at hand, can someone explain to me why there is a page of "Unique Items" that lists most (if not all) of the other items in the game including swords, shields, helms and clothing but not staves? Is this an oversight, or is the presence of those items an oversight or what? I'm really just trying to help it make sense, in case someone is looking for one complete list of unique items. Collectors do this often - I know because I am one of them - and I think it'd be a handy page to have. That aside, that's what the title of the page implies it's for, so... I'm asking again, "Shouldn't staves be on this page too? If not, why not?" --Alaston

Umm, I thought I already provided a response to this question (see above).... But let me try again ;)

Basically, there is no completely consistent way to organize all of the items in the game. You can't just put them all on one page, because the page would be hopelessly large. And any type of system for splitting the items up onto different pages is going to be imperfect, because arbitrary distinctions need to be made in order to divide up the information.

This is one of those imperfections. If we move all of the staves here, then the Staves page is wrong, for example, when it states at the top of the page "This page describes the unique staves found in the game". And the Items page would be wrong, for example where it states "All non-generic staves (mages staff, leveled staves, and unique magical staves)". A large amount of the information about unique staves would be difficult to condense into a format suitable for the Unique Items page, in particular the unique Mage's Staff that you obtain for joining the Mages Guild. If some are moved here and not others, then it's inconsistent again. If the information is copied here, then it leads to inevitable problems with maintaining correct information in both places (e.g., the edits made just this morning to the Staves article would also have to be made to the second copy of the information here). Plus the aforementioned problem that the Unique Items page is really too large; adding even more information to the page is likely to lead to increased problems with readers trying to view the information that is already provided on the article (and there are very real problems that crop up with large pages just going blank because they are too large; it took the server a couple of minutes to process an edit to the Unique Items page just now, which means this page is very close to the point at which blank pages become a real issue).

We have placed the top priority on making sure that all of the items in the game are described somewhere (a task that actually isn't complete), and that every item has a redirect so that readers can easily find the items no matter where the information is provided. If you want to start picking apart details of the system, there are many problematic pages (for example, all of the articles listed at Specialty Gear). Any type of reorganization really should take into account all of those pages and come up with a comprehensive solution. But that is a huge project, that is going to break every item redirect in this namespace, confuse readers who are used to the current system, and have a relatively small payoff. (And even just moving the staves has all of the same problems: it will force dozens of redirects to be changed, it will confuse many readers, and help relatively few readers IMO). In other words, perhaps it should be done eventually, but at the moment it's something I consider to be a very low priority.

In the meantime, I have added a sentence at the very top of the page stating that Staves are not included here. Anyone who wants a complete list of items should be reading the introduction anyway, since Leveled Items and Artifacts are also listed separately. Yes, it means you have check four pages instead of three. But it seems like the easiest solution right now. --Nephele^Talk 16:12, 22 February 2008 (EST)

Holy crap, Nephele... I certainly did not expect a response that... Size. For the record, no, I didn't get this answer out of the previous response you offered, so thanks for clarifying.

Let me just ask one more question then. Why wouldn't it be okay to have the same unique staff listed on two or more pages, such as in the "complete staves" page (whatever name it goes by) and in the unique items page? This is the easiest answer, probably makes the most sense, and helps people find the right thing regardless of whether they are staff hunting or unique item hunting.

Even if we couldn't do that, whichever system it was we applied to all the other items (Swords, shields, helms, etc)... Wouldn't it make sense if we applied that same system to the staves? At least then people would know they're sorted one way universally - "Swords, ALL swords, are on the swords page and no place else. Same with helms. Same with shields. Same with staves."

Right now, they look at it and go, "ALL the staves are on the staves page, not the unique items page. ALL the helms... Wait a second, they're not all here. Or they're over on another page too, or what the Hell? This makes no sense. I can't tell if I'm missing items or not because there isn't one organizational system in place."

I'd be willing to help (it'd take some teaching) to re-organize things. Frankly, I don't care which system you guys decide to use, but whatever system it is should be THE system, instead of doing it two or more different ways for essentially the same types of items. That's very confusing to people, especially newbs, who by the way are the ones that probably use this the most and are trying to do it right by checking here first. So I'll help if you want me to, but it really would make sense for ONE system to be in place throughout the wiki, don't you agree? --Alaston

Why not just add Staves and under it:

Main Article: Staves? -Nesskid 20:36, 21 January 2009 (EST)

At any rate, I've added a note about "Unique Staves" in the Other Weapon Resources section.

Perhaps because a sentence was already added at the very top of the article that states "Unique staves are not included here; all unique staves are listed on the Staves article" ? --Nephele^Talk 00:52, 25 January 2009 (EST)

Ah, I see it now. My mistake. –Nesskid 20:52, 25 January 2009 (EST)

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