Oblivion talk:The Hist

Maglir

Maglir sees you when you exit the Hist room, but he's not unavoidable, but very much avoidable, if your fast as lightning that is (like me). If you the precise moment when you're walking through that door runs off to the left (At least i ran to the left... Probably works to the right too) you will be able to avoid him without him even following you. When you latter on returns to the Blackwood Company he'll be there talking with you as any normal being //me)

Re-Entering Bug

The re-entering bug doesn't work perfectly. I am playing on the most updated 360 version, and when I exit, and re-enter, the guards still attack me. However, it's worth noting that Ja'Fazir, however is not hostile anymore. And I exploited this, using him as a meat shield from Blackwood archers in the same room. Kokuwagata 04:08, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

Info on Fixing the Expulsion

I added a bit of info on how to fix being expelled. This is my first somewhat larger (= not just one ID) edit, so please don't sodomize me if I did something wrong :) ThebigMuh 23:57, 9 May 2007 (CET)

keys

Koldhard 23:14, 10 May 2007 (EDT)i have the basement key in my inventory but i cant open the door please help

There are two doors. A smaller one, the one he leads you through before you drink the Hist sap for the first time, and a larger one directly opposite the entrance. Both are locked with "Need a key", and lead to a basement, but you'll have to go through the big ones next to the entrance. ThebigMuh 19:48, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

Staying on their good side

If you attack Ja'Fazir before he can initiate conversation with you, and kill him, you can yield to the other Blackwood Company members in the lobby, and additionally, the remaining Blackwood Company members won't attack you on sight (with the exception of the two guarding the tree). Once you attack him it stops him from trying to talk to you, but if you yield to him he will talk to you and kick you out of the Company like normal, and then attack. I'd like someone to verify that this works with unmodded Oblivion; which is why I put it here.

You can also avoid fighting by running up to the third floor of the hall before Ja'Fazir has a chance to initiate conversation with you. He'll stop following you, and you can talk to him as usual without initiating combat. The same goes for Maglir, after you've destroyed the Hist Tree--he won't follow you to the third level, and will just stand around on one of the lower levels. If the player tries to talk to him before the entire quest is over, he will still attack, but after completion, he's a standard NPC. 67.78.96.92 01:43, 20 July 2011 (UTC)Art

Fighters Guild FAQ

I was wondering if there is a certain combination to get more money. I am talking about the options to focus on recruitment, contracts, or balance them out? Which one generates more if there is one. — Unsigned comment by 70.178.92.142 (talk)

I've added a new section to the article entitled Master of the Guild. It provides all the gory details on each of the three available options. That should answer your question :) --Nephele^Talk 04:35, 23 September 2007 (EDT)

Possible New Bug?

Copied from the main article. Anybody else seen this?

• Sometimes when you enter the blackwood company hall Ja'Fazir,Geel and Rana still remain marked as essential(unkillable.) The only way i know to get round this is to steal the key from Ja'Fazir and try your best to ignore them.

--Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 06:55, 20 October 2007 (EDT)

The only reason I can see offhand for this happening is if someone artificially completed Infiltration. The three Blackwood members are set to be nonessential at quest stage 70 in Infiltration, the same point at which the NPC is set to not be a member of the Blackwood Company. And if the bug is caused by someone using the console to cheat, then it's not a bug. I can't see any other explanation, especially without more details on how the Infiltration quest was completed by the person who experienced this. --Nephele^Talk 16:02, 20 October 2007 (EDT)

I am having this bug too, and I'm not using the console to cheat or anything. As for completing the Infiltration quest, this is what I did: I talked to Oreyn for the quest and went to the Blackwood Company and talked to Jeetum-Zee. I ask him to join and he asks me to follow him to the basement, where he briefs the other three members of the Blackwood Company and me. Then he gives me the Hist Sap and I drink it. The four of us automatically fast travel to Waters Edge and the three other recruits attack the Goblins, and I help. They then tell me to kill the ones inside and I do so. I then automatically Fast Travel back to Oreyn's house and then we have that, "Where am I?" type conversation and then I continue talking to him for the next mission, which is The Hist. As you can see, I just follow the journal and I'm not cheating either. I've completed the main quest before and joined the Fighter's Guild without this happening. I am stumped.

UPDATE: I was thinking about it and some things popped up: one, I accidentally hit the console key before I entered the Blackwood Company building because I actually wanted to hit the Tab key for my map. Second, I noticed that my game version is v1 as I recently uninstalled and installed again, and I installed a mod just before I played this mission. I think that may have something to do with it. The mod may have something to do with it, I'm not sure, but I think it may be because of the lack of update.

UPDATE 2: I installed the latest patch and that solved it for me.

122.104.187.27 15:58, 12 November 2007 (EST)

I completed the previous quest normally (no cheating) but still can't kill the 3 initial villains. Now it was impossible for me to kill them all as respawning is pretty fast so I thought of leveling thus using the console to kill the respawns and I finally did it (killing 2 fast respawning while having a tough fight add to the length). I notice while I was at the third vilain that the first (Ja'Fazir) stopped attacking but killing him is still impossible but I may resort the another trick and steal his key although I'd much prefer killing them properly for the satisfaction of it plus looting them naked like I always do. >:) *mouhahaha* I also raised his Disposition to 84-6 but he still won't help me in battle, I suppose his faction property make him like them better (or not enough). --DynV 21:17, 3 January 2009 (EST)

I have encountered this bug as well; it's certainly not because I used any console commands, as I have the X-Box version. All the Blackwood villains are marked as essential. I restarted the quest from the point in "Infiltration" where you join Blackwood - twice, and the same glitch occurred. However, I believe this may be caused because this game was originally a Game Of The Year game; I am currently playing with an old non-GotY disk. As soon as I can recover the GotY disk, I'll update if it fixed the problem. By the way, the first time I completed the Infiltration quest, I "ran away like a punk", the second time I compelled the goblins outside to be killed by others, and the third I killed them myself. The second time I didn't stop to save, and the third time I neither saved nor waited. None of that made a difference. --159.115.213.102 18:48, 25 February 2009 (EST)

UPDATE: Re-installing the patch and GotY content fixes this. I restarted the quest, and the Blackwood guys were no longer marked as essential (and I could kill them). [Uh, my IP address is different, but I'm the same as the user above]--76.90.74.72 03:42, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Empty Hist Bottles

Moved from the main article:

It appears as though the Blackwood Comapany has not only been supplying their own members with Hist Sap, as empty Hist Sap bottles can be found in several caves and dungeons throughout Cyrodiil.

As far as I know, there is only one place in Cyrodiil other than Blackwood Company locations with an Empty Hist Sap bottle, namely Infested Mine. So saying that there are "several caves and dungeons" seems like a bit of stretch. And I'm not so sure that it's possible to make inferences about a hist sap distribution based upon one bottle. It seems just as likely that there used to be a quest connection in the cave and the developers forgot to clean everything up after changing their minds. --Nephele^Talk 19:59, 28 October 2007 (EDT)

Key?

I completed the quest and can't seem to find a key for the door to the training hall (The place you are originally led to to take the Hist). Is there one? 76.106.192.170 01:51, 11 December 2007 (EST)

No, there's no key. That area is off-limits unless you use the console. --Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 02:43, 11 December 2007 (EST)

Key to enter the Blackwood Company house

I’m playing on xbox 360, and I’ve finished Infiltration. When returning to the Blackwood Company at the beginning of the The Hist, the door is locked and I need a key. I’ve waited around a few hours, but the doors do not open. Is this a bug? Is it possible to get a key somewhere? Will the doors eventually open? Do I need replay Infiltration an try to steal a key?, 21 January 2008

It will be open during the day, i went in around 8:00.

Triggering the Dark Brotherhood

(moved from the article)

• If you sneak into the Blackwood Company Hall and slay Blackwood members before they attack you, this will count as murder and therefore trigger the Dark Brotherhood quest line (if it hasn't been triggered already). Edit: this may only be because not all the NPCs in building can be killed in one-hit. Any NPC who you kill in one-hit will not identify you, and therefore not count as murder. Edit: This may not be completely true. After been declared a traitor I triggered the Brotherhood quest line after killing the 3rd member even though it wasn't a murder.

I've moved this because it seems there's no clear answer to when or even if any of the kills counts as a murder. Plus having "Edit" in the middle of a paragraph is plain annoying. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 15:11, 4 February 2008 (EST)

I'm playing through the quest right now on Xbox 360. I went in and after talking to Ja'Fazir proceeded in killing him. While I was at it, Rana was shooting fireballs at me from the room to the right. She also had an invisibility spell on her. I killed her which triggered the Dark Brotherhood questline. She was attacking me the entire time. What I did note is that Rana had been invisible since at least the start of Infiltration. Not sure if that has something to do with it though. --2.246.193.207 14:42, 5 January 2014 (GMT)

Maglir not appearing: does this really matter?

The bugs section of the article says: "Occasionally, Maglir has been known not to appear after exiting the basement, preventing the quest from updating.". But as far as I can see, there is no quest update or stage associated with Maglir's appearance, so how can this bug screw up the quest? Nifhelton 18:02, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

Looking over the scripts and so forth, I don't see anything that would be quest-breaking if Maglir doesn't appear. I've tagged the original note as Verification Needed in the hopes that it can be confirmed or disproven as a necessary part of the quest. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 15:43, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

Well if he doesn't appear, he can't die; and if he can't die, the front door to the Blackwood Company Hall stays locked so you can't get out. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 12:40, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

That's not true. Even if Maglir does appear, you do not have to kill him, you don't even have to allow him to talk to you. And I'm pretty sure the door to the Blackwood Company hall never locks itself in the first place. Nifhelton 13:02, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

I think Rpeh's right. The main door appears to start as locked with no key available and only be unlocked by Maglir's death. So if you don't kill Maglir, you'll never get out. Now having said that, the body of the article makes it look like you can easily run out the main door, so I have to admit, I'm a little confused! I'll load an older game and trigger the quest manually and see if I can determine anything. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 13:59, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

As far as I can tell, the Blackwood Hall main door always stays open after you've entered, though I'm at a loss to find what's controlling that in the CS. Given that, however, I'd say the note about Maglir is utterly irrelevant! --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 14:51, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

I think the door may lock depending on what time you enter. The Blackwood members seem to lock the door to the hall during the night. I was once in the hall late in the evening, which caused Geel to follow me around and asking me to leave so he could lock up. Anyway, I have completed The Hist without killing Maglir. Nifhelton 11:36, 20 June 2008 (EDT)

I would say I have debunked this theory. Even if it is true, (I am sure it's possible for such glitches to occur) Maglir's position at any time before you kill him is irrelevant. The position of such a character only matters if they make real-time journeys. His appearance at the end of the quest is 100% scripted (I.E. wherever he was before, he appears before you regardless) I find it really hard to believe that he would not appear in the end, as it is simply supposed to happen. Anywho, it has absolutely 0% with progression of the quest, and it cannot possibly freeze you or anything, as it is 100% scripted....so this most certainly does not matter. Ahov 15:25, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

I never even saw Maglir during the quest, and nothing negative seemed to happen. 89.124.235.130 15:29, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

Taking all the credit

So what happens if you tell Vilena Donton that you did it by yourself? It seems letting her know Modryn Oreyn was involved is optional.205.250.4.243 23:20, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

It is. It doesn't make a difference whether you tell her the truth or not - she promotes you and suggests Modryn as your deputy. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 04:05, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

Theft charge for picking up pipes?

I am trying to play a clean character and so far have all zero stats but I noticed that when I pick up the two pipes in the basement it registers as two stolen items. Does anybody else have this problem. Are there any fixes? -TheOtherZack 4.246.234.155 22:46, 7 December 2008 (EST)

Yes, this is one of several quests in the game that requires you to steal; see Stealing for a list of all such quests. I don't know of any way to avoid it. --Nephele^Talk 12:06, 8 December 2008 (EST)

Thanks Nephele, I guess I will stop my obsession with zero stats and complete the game as best as I can. I have been playing this game for an entire year now and it is time to finish and move on. I have decided that my next major game will be Fallout3 so I took a look around for some good wiki's. Unfortunately, none of them are anywhere near the quality or depth of this one so you and the others deserve a big thanks. I wonder if you have had a chance to play Fallout3 yet...(hint, hint. :-) -TheOtherZack 173.116.234.124 22:22, 8 December 2008 (EST)

Invisibility as an option

It's quite easy to complete this quest by pickpocketing the keys while using an invisibility spell, and thereby not having to kill any of the blackwood company members. I was surprised this wasn't mentioned here, so I added it to the notes. In my opinion, it is probably the more "proper" way of completing the quest, since Modryn Oreyn never actually tells you to kill them. Would anyone be opposed to me restructuring the article to outline both possible methods more clearly? --72.225.201.163 20:59, 6 May 2009 (EDT)

It's an option so it should be treated as such, but it's a bit silly to say it's the "proper" way. He doesn't tell you to kill anybody in Information Gathering, you don't get told to kill anything in Amelion Tomb in an earlier quest. Since, however, he does talk about the need to destroy the Blackwood company, I'd say it's implicit that he wants you to kill its leaders rather than leave them alive. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 07:43, 10 May 2009 (EDT)

The "proper" way is to smash heads, not sneak around or use magic. It's the fighters guild here, remember? Eth 03:15, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

maglir

every time he pops up even if i let him attack me first it counts as being banned from the fighters guild

Yes, I was suspended from the guild for killing Maglir too. In the end I had to just run out of the door and Fast Travel to Chorrol and it all seemed hunky dory. --82.12.245.37 21:53, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Second in Command

What happens if you say to Vilena you did it yourself at the end of the quest, is someone else second in command? — Unsigned comment by 75.40.233.198 (talk) on 22 July 2009

It doesn't make a difference - she still recommends Modryn. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 17:21, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Avoiding combat with Ri'Zakar

I entered Ri'Zakar's room with the Gray Cowl of Nocturnal on and was not attacked and the dialogue never started. In addition to that, when I talked to him, he responded to me like a member of the Thieve's Guild would, by telling me what it honor it is to be talking to me. I was able to pickpocket his sword and his key off of him, although I did end up attacking him just because and he began laying into me with his big axe. So it should be possible to completely avoid combat with him if wearing the Gray Cowl of Nocturnal.

After the Hist

Has anyone noticed you get +90 dispositions with everyone in Chorrol after you finish the Hist? Even the Orc healer in Chorrol Chapel, who is normally unfriendly to non-orcs has +90 disp. Defender of Lainlyn 04:02, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

2 Murders after finishing this quest

Strange, I never even noticed I had picked up 2 murders when I finished The Hist, but when I rested after the quest, it triggered the Dark Brotherhood chain, and I noted 2 murders in my character's history, with 0 bounty and infamy. o_O I did make a point to kill everyone in the Blackwood Company hall, but I made sure they all attacked me first, which is why I'm confused as to where I picked up the murders. Must have been when I attacked two of the named Blackwood Company guys from sneak mode. 67.193.109.219 00:43, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Confirming the murder glitches

I'm playing on Xbox 360 GOTY edition and i keep getting the DB message and bounty when killing Rana and Jeetum-Ze, no matter how long i let them tear into me before retaliating. reloading a previous save does nothing either. So either you have to murder them, or run away until a guard kills them, apparently. Mathiusdragoon 18:12, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

I have since been able to pass the mission without incident. I believe the problem was using the mind and body ring. Maybe the reflected damage counts as an attack on them before it registers that you are fighting in self defense? Mathiusdragoon 00:43, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Even so, that's screwy. This generally doesn't happen with other NPCs when they go hostile on you first. Besides, I had the same problem with Rana and I didn't have any reflect damage enchantments active. Although I did summon a creature during that fight. I reloaded and tried again without summoning anything and was able to kill her without it counting as murder. Definitely strange.

Maglir, getting expelled, and murder stats

After the UOPS fix that was supposed to deal with the reports of Maglir causing expulsions from the guild for killing him, I've run a number of tests against The Hist. The fix the UOPS put in was reverted, then I advanced one of my chars through the guild up to the point where Maglir first defects. His defection to BWC was confirmed via Refscope. To be double sure, the console command "SameFactionAsPC" was used to check him, confirming he shared no faction in common with the player.

I then advanced to the end of the quest line, saving just outside BWC Hall. The first two runs I tried, I allowed events to unfold naturally. Called a traitor, everyone on the ground floor attacks. I killed them all. No murders, no bounties.

The next two runs I tried I charged in attacking anything that moved, and killed the cat at the door almost immediately. Well before he ever had a chance to try and speak. Apparently I was quick enough to take him out before the others noticed. No murders, no bounties. Went upstairs and killed the leader without provocation. Again, no murders, no bounties.

The last two runs I removed every mod I had and went back in with just Oblivion.esm loaded. Just did what played out smoothly, and yet was able to finish without being expelled or tagged for murders or bounties etc.

In all cases, Maglir showed up as expected. In no scenario did his death ever result in a murder, bounty, or expulsion from the guild. Before testing with an unmodified game, I was decked out in all manner of gear with damage reflection, so not even that was factoring in.

There is only one way I was ever able to force the issue of an expulsion, and that's when I loaded up one last time and used the console to issue the command "setfactionrank 2228F -1" on him. The actual rank didn't entirely matter, but the significance here is that -1 is supposed to remove someone from a faction. If they're ALREADY out though, it adds them back in. So the only conclusion I'm able to draw at this point is that expulsion can only happen if Maglir's factions are being manipulated either through the console or through a mod which is putting him back in the guild.

NONE of the BWC members ever triggered any negative results, and that's expected since the faction is marked as evil.

The point of this long-winded post is that the bugs concerning Maglir and Ri'Zakar are both invalid. There is no way in an unmodified game (fully patched at least) for killing anyone in BWC headquarters to get you expelled from the guild. I think both of those bugs should be removed as they don't apply. Arthmoor 05:26, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm inclined agree with you. I did some testing on this myself when it was first reported and could never get a murder or bounty. Since the Blackwood Company faction is marked as "Evil", it should be impossible. BUT, the previous section on this page (Confirming the murder glitches) says that somebody on a console got this problem, which rules out the modding theiry.

It should also be impossible to get expelled: Maglir is removed from the Fighters Guild when Modryn tells you "I'm going to need you to find Maglir again. The little fetcher." so you aren't attacking a member. That is the only place anybody is removed from the guild by a script, so it doesn't seem possible it could have happened more than once.

On the other hand, there's at least one site on the internet that encourages its readers to insert false information on UESP. I'm not claiming that's what happened, but it means one can never be 100% sure that a bug report is accurate. There are additional possibilities such as other townsfolk getting involved too.

I'm moving both bugs here for now. If we get more reports of this problem we might have to look at moving them back though.

• Sometimes Ri'Zakar may not attack you leaving you with the option to steal the key or kill him (this counts as murder).
• Sometimes even if you let Maglir attack you before you kill him, you may get expelled. Instead of attacking him, run outside of the Blackwood Company Hall, then keep running until a guard sees Maglir. Then the guard will attack, and eventually kill him. After that you can proceed to finish your quest without the problem of expulsion from the Fighter's Guild.

rpeh •T•C•E• 08:37, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Moving one more here then since it covers the same problem - testing pure vanilla never resulted in any negative action against the character while testing.

• If you kill Maglir before he has a chance to start attacking you, it will count as murder and you will be expelled from the Fighters Guild. Assuming this isn't your third expulsion from the guild, you will have to complete the re-entry requirements (collect 20 bear pelts or 20 minotaur horns) before you can finish this quest.

Arthmoor 08:43, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

I use a lot of mods these days, and back when I used none, I didn't have a problem with this. However, I did get expelled the last 2 times I played through this quest. Although I don't think I have any mods that change the scripting of this, maybe other than the unofficial patches, or OOO. I'm looking for the script that removes him from the fighters guild in the CS, but I can't find it. Just wanted to let you know. ~ Dwarfmp 16:45, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

In the CS, open the Quests dialog, then FGD04, select the Topics tab. Editor ID is "duties", info starts out with "I'm going to need you to find...". As has been mentioned previously, in the selected Result Script, you'll see the two commands given

• "MaglirREF.SetFactionRank FightersGuild -1" and
• "MaglirREF.SetFactionRank BlackwoodCompanyFaction 1"

and that -should- remove Maglir from the FG. I've been trying to find a complementing converse (probably duplicate) command set within all the other quest stages, and can find none. WalB 16:16, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

As I said above, the only place that anybody gets added or removed to/from the guild is that one script. I can only assume that people are somehow managing to skip the script, but it doesn't seem possible to me. rpeh •T•C•E• 16:49, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Conflicting Information

The notes section says this:

"After Ja'Fazir accuses you of being a traitor and attacks you, it is possible for you to successfully yield to him. He will then stand and watch as you dispatch the other Blackwood members that attack you. The other members will not accept yields."

The bugs section says this:

"Alternatively you can yield to any one of the attacking Blackwood and they will let you go. Then just steal the Basement keys and finish the quest."

They can't both be right. Either the members will yield or they won't. I guess some more testing is in order here. Arthmoor 19:52, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

All of the members can possibly yield to you, if this partly answers your question. --Arch-Mage Matt ^{Did I Do That?} 21:53, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

That's what I'm getting at. Either they can all yield or they can't. Saying the others will not accept yields contradicts the report that they will. Neither one is 100% accurate IMO. The reason for this is because none of the BWC members have a combat style that rejects yields. Arthmoor 22:27, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

That's what I checked, but I imagine who wrote that was thinking on a theoretical view and didn't experiance it, because it would be almost impossible to get them all to start attacking. I'd guess as soon as they stopped attacking, they'd immeadiatly start helping the other teammates, or attacking you. --Arch-Mage Matt ^{Did I Do That?} 22:34, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Master of the Guild, Guildmaster's Chest

If the chest isn't checked and/or emptied each month, will the money and items just accumulate or will the chest reset each month? -- MartinS 92.254.208.123 16:43, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

I seem to recall that the profits and such accumulate, but I can't remember where I read that. At any rate, I'm fairly sure the chest doesn't respawn, so the items shouldn't disappear. --Darkle ~ Talk 05:00, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

I can tell you from personal experience that anything left in the chest disappears when new stuff is put in. 205.133.169.233 16:09, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Invisible Chorrol Fighters Guild

So, I finished the quest up to getting Oreyn's helm. I go into the fighters guild, and all of the NPC's are invisible and untalk-to-able except for the porter...

Are they completely invisible or does it look like they used a potion/spell that made them invisible, but still partially visible? Also when you talk to them does it say "<Name> is fleeing"? they probably encountered an enemy, either that or it's just a bug, sorry to hear it either way. --Dremora Lord 14:39, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Killing Maglir

So uhh I got kicked out of the Fighters Guild for killing Maglir.

I see it isn't on the list of glitches, but I figured it would be best to put this here.

Sorry if it is in the wrong location.

96.255.176.101 17:43, 26 January 2011 (UTC)Hi

This sounds like a one-off bug. Many, Many people have done this quest multiple times, and have not gotten kicked out. Sorry you got kicked out, but unless more people say this has happened to them, it sounds like something game-specific to just you.--Catmaniac66 15:20, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

It just happened to me. I tried to finish Maglir by both manners (killing him myself or by guards) and everytimes I'm expelled out when I get back to Chorrol. I'm on latest version with the unofficial oblivion patch. 74.59.15.31 10:09, 31 August 2011 (UTC)metalopathe

Happened to me as well, running version 1.2.0416. - deldelda — Unsigned comment by 108.89.104.193 (talk) at 19:04 on 18 May 2012

Moved notes

• If you enter the Blackwood Company Hall and leave without killing any of the members, the door may lock behind you and you may not be able to get back in. You should be able to get back in eventually, but it is easier to just avoid going in until you are ready to fight.

• There are nirnroot plants in both rooms on the first floor in the Blackwood Company Hall.

The top one is more of a bug really, but the other one is irrelevant in my opinion. --AKB ^Talk 05:59, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I have read some of these posts for the first time ever since playing Oblivion. I finished the entire game when it first came out and never once did I get kicked out of the fighter's guild. I have recently reloaded along with the Shivering Isle's add on, and again, did not get kicked out so I don't really know what' happened to some other folks....maybe it is just specific to your console? RG 67.171.146.7 07:43, 9 December 2012 (GMT)

Killing Maglir (again)

I think we're going to have to leave this bug on the page. The biggest discussion was at #Maglir, getting expelled, and murder stats, but the bug keeps coming up and getting re-added to the page. We can't just hand-wave and say it doesn't happen. I must confess, though, that AGF aside, I would prefer a more reliable source for this bug. rpeh •T•C•E• 18:47, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

It happened to me just now as well on Xbox. I did not have a point added to my murder number, but I did get expelled after completing the quest. 9 December 2011

Third Floor of the Hall: NPC's Don't Follow, Can't Leave

It seems that NPCs have a problem with the third floor of the Blackwood Company Hall. Non-hostile NPCs will not follow you up to the top level, while hostile NPCs seem to be unable to find you while you're there, although the sneaking eye will remain lit.

If you can get around Ja'Fazir when you enter the hall the first time, before he initiates the accusatory conversation with you, he will stop following you and return to his normal position, waiting in the middle of the ground floor of the hall. From this point on, he's basically a normal NPC. You can talk to him and persuade him, although his only conversation options are Leyawiin and Rumors. (You'll still need to pickpocket Jeetum Ze's Room Key from him to continue the quest)

The same goes for Maglir, after you've destroyed the Hist Tree. If you get up to the third floor before he initiates conversation, he will stop following you completely and wait somewhere on the ground floor. However, if you try to talk to him before completing the quest, he will still go to his usual confrontational dialogue and immediately attack you. After "The Hist" has been completed, he essentially becomes another regular NPC, with the usual dialogue and persuasion options (although his only conversation topic is "Rumors").

Hostile NPCs will only be able to follow you to the third level if they are close enough to you when you run up the stairs. Otherwise, they will roam around the ground or second floors, aware of your presence, but seemingly unable to find their way up the stairs. If they have a direct line of sight to you and have any ranged attacks, they will still be able to fire at you.

If you are caught pickpocketing one of the Blackwood Company members, the whole group will start to follow you, and they may follow you all the way to the third floor. However, they only stand and stare at you. Not only that, but they'll likely be stuck on the third floor if they make their way up.

If any NPC does manage to make it to the third floor, they will be unable to find their way back down. Often, they will come as far down as the first flight of stairs, but cannot make it past the left turn from the third floor stairs onto the second floor. Hostile NPCs will chase you down the stairs, but if you jump from the banister onto the second floor, they will remain trapped on the third.

If you enter a new area (the Basement, Ri'Zakar's Room, Jeetum Ze's Room, or if you leave the hall) followers or hostile NPCs will appear in the new area shortly.

Lastly, this seems to apply to all NPCs, including the two automatically hostile Company members in the basement, hostile guards, the Adoring Fan, summoned creatures, etc.

67.78.96.92 08:24, 19 July 2011 (UTC)Art

Persistant Crash at Quick Walkthrough # 6 (Enter Ri'Zakar's room)

Whenever I try to enter Ri'Zakar's room during "The Hist" the game crashes to desktop and produces a Windows Error report. I have reverted to older saves & restarted the mission several times, always with the same result. I have done it with and without bounty on me, with and without wearing Grey Cowl, and also ensuring none of the Blackwood combatants were "murdered".

Some curious facts:
Using console to moveto or placeatme RiZakar while standing just outside his room also results in identical CTDs.
Every instance of the crash creates Application Eror report with the fault address of 0x0007b443

Modded game on XP, 153 hours of playing this character (level 16), I have had no problems prior to this and have reached this point legimitely (without any console usage/cheats).

This had me stumped for quite a while.
Finally tracked it down to the meshes\armor\TheSilverDragonOrder\m\cuirass.nif in "Robert Male Muscular OOO Armor" mod http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14984 .
a4

Possible to gain Infamy in this quest.

If you sneak in and attack the Blackwood NPC's before they engage in combat, the kills are counted as murders and you will gain a point of infamy, and some of them have a high enough Responsibility to automatically give you a bounty, which is likely the cause of the infamy point. I killed two of the three on the ground floor before they drew their weapons, and got two murders and 1 Infamy point out of the deal. 24.156.216.144 23:09, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Maglir becomes non-aggressive

I'm mostly sure this isn't a bug, as I did it on purpose twice. It may or may not be related to Disposition, but you guys can put it in the Notes if you want.

• Hitting Maglir with a powerful enough Command Humanoid effect will cause him to lose all aggression. He will wander around the Blackwood Company Hall and never talk to you again. Engaging in conversation will have him repeat his scripted response and make him aggressive again.

Done with a Daedric Bow, Command Humanoid 100(Level 25) for 1 sec. In my experience, aggressive foes stay aggressive unless they get distracted by another enemy in the brief 1 second of my enchant. They'll put away their weapon and then draw it again. I play Xbox 360 GotY Edition. 24.241.113.143 09:37, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Essential Status

When I entered the Blackwood Company Hall and had the Argonian call me a traitor and everyone attacked me, I ran into a little problem, it did not stop me from completing the quest but every member of the Company, save Maglir, the Ri-Zakar and the two Argonian's guarding the Hist tree remained Essential and now whenever I enter the hall, they all attack me and follow me outside, but the guards nock them out. This is not a Troll, despite how much it does. Dunehelm (talk) 23:33, 13 February 2014 (GMT)

Complete the quest without fight

1. While Ja'Fazir approach you, cast command humanoid on him and pickpocket his key. or pickpocket his key and fail to pickpocket other stuff.
2. Pickpocket another keys to another members.
3. Enter the basement, pick up the two pipes and destroy two pumps.
4. As soon as you destroy the pumps, leave the basement. If you are quick enough, Maglir doesn't appear. So you can leave there without killing Maglir.

• After complete this quest, Maglir will stand somewhere in Leyawiin.