Oblivion talk:Master Training

Marana Rian

Could someone help clarify why I can't be trained by Marana Rian (Master Trainer of Sneak)? I got my skill to level 70, talked to a "medium" level trainer (Orutus) and received the master training quest. (Note: It might be worth adding into the Training page something about needing a high disposition of the NPC trainer before the "Train" conversation appears). I found her, completed her quest and have the icon for training available, but it says I've trained 5/5 times and don't need training. I don't have any active spells or enchanted items boosting my Sneak skill either. I do have a ring that gives me Chameleon for 25%, though. I'll try removing it tonight before I move on. --schatten529 10:15, 13 July 2006 (EDT)

You can only train 5 times per level in anything. Gain a level, and you'll be able to train again. This applies to all trainers, not just the masters. --TheRealLurlock 10:28, 13 July 2006 (EDT)

That makes sense now. I had just trained in illusion as was wondering why I couldn't boost my block skill too (which is low). I thought the training per level was referring to each of the three levels of the trainer (low, medium, master) not level of the character. I've missed out on a ton of training then…oops! I guess I should have paid more attention to the initial conversation or tutorial (if there was one). Thanks Lurlock (the Real One)! --schatten529 11:49, 13 July 2006 (EDT)

Silgor?

Under Rusia Bradus' entry, it mentions her husband Silgor. I can't find that name anywhere in the Construction Set. Does anybody know what this is about?

Correction, I CAN find the name, but not the man. Rusia lives in "Silgor Bradus' House", but there's no Silgor Bradus (or Silgor anything-else) anywhere in the game. Strange. --TheRealLurlock 20:14, 21 July 2006 (EDT)

Like you're really surprised to encounter strangeness any more! --Nephele 20:28, 21 July 2006 (EDT)

Figured it out. Had to delve into her dialogue, but he is there, if only in name. Added note to the main page. (In case anyone cares) --TheRealLurlock 20:38, 21 July 2006 (EDT)

Comment moved from Blunt entry

I managed to fast travel out of her [Irene Metrick's] house. Is this a glitch? (moved by Actreal 05:22, 3 August 2006 (EDT))

Redirects?

I'm wondering whether pages should be set up with the names of each of these individual quests, that then redirect to this page, e.g., Oblivion:Heavy Armor Training. They would really just be orphaned pages, but would be helpful if someone received the quest in their journal and was trying to find that quest on the wiki. One problem is that redirects can not redirect to sections of a page, only to the top of a page. Hopefully readers would be astute enough to notice the TOC entry right there that says "Heavy Armor", for example, and link down to the right section.

Also, I think it would probably be helpful to have links to the training page and the master training page from each skill's page, again to help people find this info if they're looking for it.

--Nephele 02:40, 6 August 2006 (EDT)

Hmm, I was thinking that it'd be nice if the redirects went straight to the skill you were redirected from. However, redirects with a mid-page tag do not work, apparently. (Just tried to change the Heavy Armor page to go straight to Heavy Armor instead of to the top of the page. Didn't work.) How about this instead: Since I'm making individual pages for each of the NPCs in the game, including trainers, why not just have the redirects go to that NPC's page instead? (Once they're all created, of course. The Heavy Armor trainer is one I haven't done yet.) Most of the text I put on the Master Trainer NPC pages comes from here anyhow, just reformatted. It would make sense to have the redirects more focused, rather than force people to scroll down through this page to find the skill they were looking for. --TheRealLurlock 12:23, 6 August 2006 (EDT)

Yep, redirects to midpage don't work, and for whatever obscure wiki reason will probably never work, see [1]. As for redirecting to an NPC, it seems to me that might be equally confusing: you go to look up a quest, and instead end up at a page describing a person. Given that these redirects are likely to be used by readers who have never encountered master training before, it seems that being redirected to a page that provides the basics of what master training is all about would be useful; I just revamped the intro here to hopefully provide a more complete introduction.

Or the other option would be to actually have the master training quest info on individual pages, which then get transcluded onto the main master training page. That might be the best of all worlds... --Nephele 13:26, 6 August 2006 (EDT)

I just created pages for the seven combat skills (e.g., Oblivion:Heavy Armor Training); the Master Training page now consists of transclusions of those pages. I also created a Category:Oblivion-Quests-Master Training category for good measure. Any feedback? Should I proceed to do the rest of the skills the same way? --Nephele 01:43, 11 August 2006 (EDT)

Yes. And get out of my head - I was planning on doing something just like this. Only I was going to transclude the actual NPC pages of the 21 master trainers, instead of making new pages. Would have to add a "noinclude" on their trails and categories, but otherwise I think the text on each of the master trainer pages would be perfect for this purpose. (Once they're all done. I think I have most of them, but there's a few missing.) --TheRealLurlock 09:17, 11 August 2006 (EDT)

Probably could go either way. But I think having explicit pages for each master training quest is good (every other quest that pops up in your journal has its own page, so the master training quests should be treated the same way, to make it easier to find them). And the information is fundamentally about the quest, rather than about the NPC, so I opted to put the info on the quest's page. And for the record, no mind-reading or other telepathic abilities involved :) --Nephele 14:37, 11 August 2006 (EDT)

True, but look at the Master Training quest pages, and look at the Master Trainer NPC pages. They're nearly identical. There's almost no content on one that isn't on the other. I see no problem with having a single page with both NPC and Quest trails and categories, and it makes more sense than duplicating the same info in two places, especially when neither of them has any info that the other doesn't. Maybe make one of them redirect to the other, but other than that, I think it's redundant to have the two pages with the same info. --TheRealLurlock 15:07, 11 August 2006 (EDT)

(←) There is alot of overlap, and I'm not sure what's the best way to reduce that. There are a few cases where the pages will need to be different, e.g., Sinderion will need to have extra info on his NPC page. And there also others where the quest page is going to be ridiculously short (e.g., illusion), although potentially people may want to flesh them out a little bit. If we were to do redirects, my vote would be to redirect the NPC page to the quest page: it seems likely that more people will care about the quest. I know I find it much easier to remember "Armorer Training" than the Gin-Wulm's name. With the pages I've done so far, I've been making sure that the first sentence says something like "The master trainer in Armorer is Gin-Wulm", so both the NPC name and the master trainer skill are right up front. The other option would be transcluding one way or the other, which would help with the question of trails/categories (it would make more sense to have "Gin-Wulm" listed in the NPC category, than to have "Armorer Training"). --Nephele 15:50, 11 August 2006 (EDT)

Fralav the Faker

down in the beggars table (for the speech tarining) the article claims Fralav sleeps outside of IC. I just checked that - as far as I can see he sleeps in Elvengarden - behind Fatis Ulen's house. Is Frascav confused with some other beggar here, or is the entry just bogus ? Clavis0 18:55, 27 August 2006 (EDT)

I think you're saying the exact same thing as the table... it's saying that he sleeps in Elven Gardens too, just uses a different way of describing which courtyard. However, I can see how the wording of the table is currently somewhat confusing, and I've changed it to state behind Fathis Ulen's house, since that is probably the most well-known house there. --Nephele 19:30, 27 August 2006 (EDT)

Complete Revamp

I completely reconfigured the page. I considered asking about it here first, but then I thought (since it can be easily reverted) that the best way to describe what I was thinking about doing was to show it. What do you think? Of course, I'm pretty new to this, so don't hesitate to revert if you think it needs it. --GuildKnight 22:47, 22 February 2007 (EST)

I think the new format works well, and makes it easier to scan through the page. I added Linkable Entry tags, so that any links like Oblivion:Master Training#Conjuration still work (although I'm not actually sure that there are any such links, but just in case). If you'd like to tweak some more, a couple other ideas that come to mind are:

• Shorten the task/requirement section to the basic facts, and add links to the individual quest pages (e.g. Oblivion:Armorer Training) for details/complications/whatever. So make this more of an overview table instead of the source for absolutely all info.
• Add in the skill icons (see Oblivion:Skills, for example, to get all their icon image names).
• There is also alot of inconsistency with the individual master training quests; some such as Oblivion:Armorer Training have their own pages, others such as Oblivion:Conjuration Training are just redirects to the trainer. They really should all be changed to redirects at some point, since the quest pages are almost identical to the trainer pages.

But those are just ideas that came to mind after thinking about the page; the page works well as is, too. --Nephele 17:23, 28 February 2007 (EST)

Alchemy master training

There is a bottle of Surilie 399 in Lord Drad's Estate - it's on the dressing table upstairs by the bed. Probably best to take it after the Drad quest has been completed though. — Unsigned comment by 87.194.97.107 (talk) at 13:36 on 25 March 2007

I just found a bottle of each Surilie Brothers Vintage 399 and Tamika Vintage 399 in the cupboard inside the Captain's room onboard the Marie Elena, a ship in the Waterfront District of the Imperial City. I can't make sure that both these bottles always appear here, as I play the Xbox 360 version of Oblivion. Could someone please find out if the bottles are always generated there, and if so, add their location to the main page? I feel that this is a very nice location to get them from if a character is just starting out in the Dark Brotherhood and has a high alchemy, as with my current character. — Unsigned comment by Somniloquy (talk • contribs)

Those two bottles are random. I have tried to provide a complete list of all places where the wines are guaranteed to be found at Oblivion:Sinderion#Alchemy Training. --Nephele^Talk 13:29, 13 May 2007 (EDT)

Redirects Revisited

I was wondering about the choice to change all of the individual master training quests (e.g., Alteration Training) from links to the trainer page (Tooth-in-the-Sea) to links to the Master Training article. The most complete information on each of the master training quests is currently on the trainer pages, and it seems like the quest redirect should take readers directly to the most complete information available on the quest. Taking readers to the Master Training page will either make readers think that the brief summary of the quest is the only available information, or else require them to click again and load a new page to actually find the details they're looking for.

As for whether or not the trainer pages should be the place where the complete quest information is kept, that's a question that has been discussed more than a few times now. Personally, I think the current organization works better than any of the other permutations we've gone through in the last year. But if anyone thinks that needs to be revisited, we could always open that up again (there have, for example, been changes in redirect features since then). --Nephele^Talk 10:54, 10 July 2007 (EDT)

Can you still buy training when your major skills are full (xbox360)

Hi, just wondering if its possible to buy training in your major skills, or indeed to increase your character level, once all your major skills are 100? — Unsigned comment by 81.106.10.194 (talk) at 03:00 on 11 July 2007

You can only buy training increases if:

• You are not at the training limit. ie: you still have spare points left to train for that level.
• You are not attempting to train a skill past 100. Skills cannot be trained past 100 by any means, whether naturally or by a trainer.

Once your major skills reach level 100, the only way to increase your level is if those skills are somehow boosted over 100 by unnatural means. Eg: The Oghma Infinium, the Console, or a mod. This of course, will not actually increase their effectiveness; all skills, bar Acrobatics and Athletics, are capped at 100. --Saruuk 23:21, 10 July 2007 (EDT)

Multiple Master Training Sessions?

I'm playing on the PS3, and I have been able to train multiple times, meaning I've trained for 5 points, left, came back later and trained for ANOTHER 5 points, with the Master trainers. Is this a glitch? This has worked so far with Armorer, Mercantile, and Marksman. — Unsigned comment by 38.100.176.34 (talk)

You must have leveled up between training sessions. You can train your skills up to level 100 with the master trainers but no more than 5 points for each level. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 12:48, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

Oh! I get it now. So, if I trained initially at level 30, I can train for another five points once I reach level 31. Man, I've missed a lot of training opportunities! — Unsigned comment by 38.100.176.34 (talk)

That's right. You get five training slots each level. That's not five per trainer, just five in total. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 16:35, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

Traning is full?

Hi, I have a question: I have ps3 goty, and I have complete a good deal of the master training quest, but when im finished whit the quest the training symbol is there, but when I opend the training window, it stands that you have trained 5/5 from that skill even theough I havent trained to the master trainer. The only master trainer I could have trained to is the illusion master trainer, but she had 5/5 in the training symbol before. Is this a glitch, or is the somthing I need to do more? — Unsigned comment by 82.194.207.187 (talk) at 21:55 on 13 May 2008

You can only train five times per level as described in the answer above (Multiple Master Training Sessions?) –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 01:34, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

I dont mean that, its a bit hard to explain, but when I complet a master skill quest, it stands that i have trained 5/5 even when I havent done that. I might take a picture and show what I mean — Unsigned comment by 82.194.207.187 (talk)

A picture isn't going to prove much. You must have trained five times in some skill to get that result. You will need to level up before you can use the master trainer. It doesn't matter that you haven't used the master trainer in question - ANY five training sessions counts to the five per level limit. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 10:49, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

so you mean that I must level up before I can train to the master trainer? — Unsigned comment by 82.194.207.187 (talk)

Yes. If you have already trained five times, you have to level up before you can do it again. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 13:22, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

(←) now I hear that, I thought u could only use them 1 time, and to get it worse I have 100 in all major skills and miss 1 to level up! Are there any way to get level up now? — Unsigned comment by 82.194.207.187 (talk)

I think the only way is to use the Console. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 13:14, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

Master Training Quests at 100 Skill

Can anybody tell me if it is possible to complete the master training quests still after achieving 100 skill level in the trained skill? (I need to do all training quests before achieving 100 skill if that is not the case if I want 100% completion). — Unsigned comment by 87.112.77.112 (talk) on 3 December 2008

You can. I reached Alteration 100 and then got the quest for master alteration training, so I followed the hud and found master trainer and completed his challenge, even though when I click on his training button, he can't train me any more.97.89.58.122 16:24, 18 December 2008 (EST)

I can confirm that. In fact I usually don't complete most of the master trainer quests until I've already reached level 100 in all skills - I just don't use trainers much. I'll fix up the page. Dr Jones 09:00, 21 December 2008 (EST)

Master training at Novice skill level?

Okay, so I wanted to check out Reman Broder's dialogue when he offers the quest for Marksman Master Training. As I'm a novice in Marksman, I enchanted a whole load of equipment, which brought me up to a skill level of 93. But Reman Broder will not give me the "training" option in his dialogue. Is it because I'm novice? Or is it because the master trainer is dead (she is)? Any help is appriciated. Krusty 06:19, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

With any of the master training quests, you won't get the dialogue if the master trainer is dead. All the dialogue (well... the ones I checked) have a check for "GetDeadCount(xxx) = 0" (where xxx is the master trainer in question). Wearing enchanted kit would let you get the dialogue if the trainer is still alive. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 12:59, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

I suspected that. Is it mentioned on this page? It should be. Krusty 22:39, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

I started to add some text to that page but started to feel silly and stopped. Do you really think it's necessary to point out that you won't get the quest if the master trainer is dead? –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 03:15, 24 April 2009 (EDT)

(←) I'm not sure. Looking back at the episode, I should have figured it out before going through all the trouble. I think it's okay, as long as its mentioned on this page. Thanks for checking! Krusty 07:52, 24 April 2009 (EDT)

Seperating Master Quests from NPC pages

A new discussion have been started over at the Community Portal, HERE to be exact. --Krusty 23:45, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Adding an image

I think this page should have an image as all quest pages do. The problem is= what would we use? I know this quest is not actually a quest per se, but the page could benefit from a picture symbolizing training, or skills, or whatever would be fit to put on there. Are there any suggestions on what we could use for a picture? -- Jplatinum16 17:29, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't really like the idea of an image: firstly, as Jplatinum said, because it would be quite hard to find the 'right' one. Secondly, I tend to see this page like the Main Quest one: it offers an overview of the quests and therefore doesn't really need an image. If a good image is proposed however, I may consider changing my opinion. --SerCenKing ^Talk 20:07, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Could J'baana die?

I wanted to train in security but found that the advanced trainers did not give the option "training" and when I checked, J'baana was not at his spot. I assume he is dead as I see no other explanation but how can he die?! He is in a safe place and has food in his tent which should prevent him from having to steal (And I certainly did not kill him). Does someone have an explanation?

This happened to me aswell. He has a low responsibility, so he will sometimes pickpocket the guards, causing them to kill him. Kitkat1749 01:17, 30 July 2011 (UTC)