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Oblivion talk:Alchemy/Archive 3

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This is an archive of past Oblivion talk:Alchemy discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Apparent Problem Calculating Dispel Potions Using the Alchemy Calculator

When using the Alchemy Calculator to create a Dispel Self Potion I noticed that the Dispel strength predicted by the calculator did not match the in-game results. So I conducted a few tests that I hope will be useful. The following list outlines the parameters of the test:

  • My effective_alchemy = 100
    • Actual Alchemy with no boosts = 96
    • Actual Luck with no boosts = 69
  • Created a Simple Dispel Self Potion using Bergamot Seeds and Sacred Lotus Seeds
  • The only variables in the tests were:
    • Which Pieces of Equipment were used
      • In all tests I either used a Journeyman level Aparatus (Represented by a "J") or No Aparatus (Represented by a "0")
      • I came up with 9 different combinations
    • then compared the calculator results with in-game results

Here are the results.

Equipment Type Test 1 Test 2 Test 3 Test 4 Test 5 Test 6 Test 7 Test 8 Test 9
Mortar & Pestle J J J J J J J J J
Retort J J J J J 0 0 0 0
Alembic J 0 J 0 J J 0 J 0
Calcinator J J 0 0 0 J J 0 0
Calculated Results 16pt 16pt 16pt 16pt 12pt 12pt 12pt 12pt 12pt
In-Game Results 92pt 92pt 111pt 111pt 111pt 102pt 102pt 89pt 89pt

I hope this helps! --Rhapsody 16:11, 15 August 2008 (EDT)

Thanks for pointing this out. There were multiple errors in the calculations being done for Dispel enchantments. Hopefully I've now caught them all; at least it's now getting all eight of your test cases correctly. --NepheleTalk 16:12, 16 August 2008 (EDT)
Problem with the master equipment calculator with M-M-M-0 for dispel. The calculator is saying that the magnitude should be 145 pts with no calcinator and all other pieces master level at 100 alchemy, but I'm only getting 125 pt dispel potions. 67.193.109.219 19:10, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Avoiding Mastery addition

The Danger of Mastery

Unless you are planning on using Alchemy as a primary method of gaining income, you should avoid reaching 100% mastery of alchemy. Some potions will not be creatable once you become a master, since ONLY the first ingredient gets factored into the result. For example, I used feather potions as a primary method of hauling back loot from oblivion gates. They were strong enough to matter (over 100 points for over 240 seconds), lightweight enough to carry dozens of them, and their ingredients were common (Sacred Lotus Seeds and Flax Seeds). However, since there are no ingredients with Feather as the first ingredient, I can no longer make them. Becoming a master takes away most of the control you had to make potions.

Removed for two reasons:

First off, it's written in First Person. If this were the only problem I had, I would simply rewrite it. But second off, the problem is rather unclear. He seems to be implying that you are unable to make potions with multiple ingredients at the master level, which I am sure is not the case. -Nesskid 22:54, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

You were right to edit it (and in fact I was about to do it but you just beat me to it). Only the first effect is taken into account if ONE ingredient is used, otherwise alchemy at master level works as per levels 25-99 with regards to multiple ingredient effects. --Dalimyr(T ˜ C) 23:01, 15 March 2009 (EDT)


Thank you for removing it. I added it earlier, but it seemed to be a limited time bug. Either way, it is fixed now, and I was completely wrong. Also, I wrote it in first-person, and should not have done that. I was just so amazed and frustrated at the time that I thought I needed to tell someone, but it was a simple short-lived glitch in the system. You guys are great!
-SkyWill
I think that if you wanted to make a potion with other effects, even in the mastery level, you can. It's just an added benefit to be able to use only one ingredient in the master level! Other than that, I think you could be able to choose more than one item. I haven't ever gotten that far in level though, so this may be wrong, sorry!(Cookies... lots and lots of cookies!!! 20:01, 3 November 2009 (UTC))

Skein of Magnus doomstone power: ineffective?

So a fortify alchemy enchantment or spell won't actually improve alchemical outcomes, but does the Magnus doomstone effect also fail? (If so, should this be noted in the Magnus Stone text?)

68.40.202.39 12:17, 28 March 2009 (EDT)

Yes, it applies to the Magnus Doomstone: as stated repeatedly, every fortify alchemy effect ("effect" not just "enchantment or spell") does nothing to improve your potion strengths, with one single exception, namely the altar in Frostcrag Spire. Personally, I don't think it's worth a separate note on the doomstone page: with five other effects, the doomstone is still useful to many players, plus the doomstone is no different from any other fortify alchemy effect in the game. --NepheleTalk 12:55, 28 March 2009 (EDT)

Invisibility

So I am having a problem making the invisibility potion. I'm an apprentice in alchemy. Do I have to be a higher level to make it or should I go in search of better equipment? (all of my equipment is Novice level) Any advice?MeBetter87 23:31, 28 March 2009 (EDT)

The level of your equipment doesn't influence what you can create, only the strength of the potions you make. Look at this page, where all the ingredients with an Invisibility effect are listed. At your level, only Wormwood Leaves have an invisibility effect. When you become a Journeyman (skill >= 50) you will be able to make an invisibility potion from Wormwood Leaves and Tinder Polypore Cap. Not a good idea to use that combination at Expert level, though, as it will also include a Damage Magicka effect. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 02:43, 29 March 2009 (EDT)

Wortcraft?

My current character has an Alchemy skill of 5. I wanted to increase it quickly, so ate all the food I was carring around; something like 100 tomatoes. However, the Alchemy skill hasn't budged - even a little bit. It's still sitting right at the bottom with no red progress even. Am I doing it wrong or something, because I thought eating lots of ingredients would make the skill go up - albeit slowly. — Unsigned comment by 87.127.79.8 (talk) on 10 April 2009

Never mind; I just realised it doesn't work with foodstuffs. Plants work fine. — Unsigned comment by 87.127.79.8 (talk) on 10 April 2009
I didn't realise that! Thanks for pointing it out. Now added to the article. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 06:56, 11 April 2009 (EDT)
Also it depends on whether you have Alchemy as a Major Skill!(Cookies... lots and lots of cookies!!! 20:03, 3 November 2009 (UTC))

Important Info That Should Be Added

For years I have always just randomly mixed everything together to make potions and sell for money, I never understood how alchemy really worked, even though reading the wiki several times it never explained how to get the potions you want. The calculator is good but again, it doesn't teach you how to make specific potions it only lists the needed ingredients.

It wasn't until recently I finally understood how alchemy worked, you mix ingredients with the same effect to get that potion. I think it would save some people a lot of time and reading to put this information on the main page of alchemy.

Id do it myself but I'm not good at wikis :P

To get the specific potion you want, mix two ingredients that contain the same effect. For example, a Strawberry contains (Restore Fatigue, Cure Poison, Damage Health, Reflect Damage) and St. Jahn's Wort Nectar contains (Resist Shock, Damage Health, Cure Poison, Chameleon). Mixing those two ingredients together will give you a Potion of Cure Poison because they both contain the Cure Poison effect. Some potions will contain many effects, especially when mixing more then 2 ingredients.

–Mightylink

I fail to see how this page, along with the Alchemy Calculator and Useful Potions could be much clearer. The Tips section in particular should provide enough information. –Rpeh•T•C•E• 03:06, 23 May 2009 (EDT)
None of it mentions that you need 2 of the same effect to make a potion, they all just tell you what ingredients you need, the player should be able to figure out how to make potions on their own. It wasnt until 2 years later I finally figured out I needed 2 ingredients with restore health to make a restore health potion, I couldnt find that specific info anywhere here. Mightylink
It's in the Tips section as Rpeh has pointed out. --Mr. Oblivion(T-C) 21:10, 31 May 2009 (EDT)
This information, mix 2 with the same effect together to make a potion, is on page 39 of my users manual. — Unsigned comment by 68.114.32.248 (talk) on 8 June 2009

Drain Health poison

If I'm a master alchemist with a nirnroot and a complete set of master alchemy equipment, what will be the magnitude and duration of my drain health poison?

Surprisingly, this effect does not show up at all in the alchemy calculator.

Yes, it does show up on the Alchemy Calculator. --NepheleTalk 16:32, 5 June 2009 (EDT)
no it dosen't i just checked with alchemy skill set at 100 and the effect dosent come up at the list of effects — Unsigned comment by 79.78.106.121 (talk) on 25 July 2009
Yes it does. Did you click the link Nephele provided? It comes straight up. –rpeh•T•C•E• 14:55, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
yeah sorry about that its just that it dosent pop up if i go on the calculator by going though the normal link 79.78.106.121 15:12, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
i just relised why now as well i forgot to click the rare and quest item tick boxes 79.78.106.121 15:14, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

"Used in combination..."?

"If a Calcinator is used in combination with a Retort..." -- I'm just curious: does the phrase "in combination" merely mean possession of both items? Perhaps the better question is: how do these four apparati work together, if at all? 70.108.250.26 18:03, 8 July 2009 (UTC) OneTimer

It is mentioned multiple times in the article. Read it again. –Elliot(T-C) 18:16, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Please strike my confusing follow-up question - it muddied the water.
I ask if any action is required to use multiple apparatuses other than possessing multiple apparatuses.
Article wording is a valid subject for a talk page, sir; particularly with an article in which, for example, the phrase "a calcinator alone..." likely means "a m&p and calcinator...". I'd prefer silence to glibness. 70.108.250.26 17:49, 9 July 2009 (UTC) OneTimer
No. Just having them in your inventory is enough. The game automatically implements their effects when making potions. Wolok gro-Barok 20:50, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
Thank you, sir Orc 70.108.250.26 16:41, 13 July 2009 (UTC) OneTimer

The 4 Appaaratus work like this:

  • Mortar and Pestle: Increases Strength and Duration of Both Potions And Poisons
  • Calcinator:Increases Strength Of Poisons
  • Retort:Increases Strength Of Potions
  • Alemblic:Increases Duration Of Both Potions And Poisons

Correct me about any of these apparatuses

The Grand Champ 01:15, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

This is already fully described on the article, here. rpeh •T•C•E• 13:28, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Chokeberry, Poisoned apple, and Beating heart

Okay, I decided to make a few drinkable poisons. First I acquired three of each poisoned apples, chokeberries, and beating hearts. First I made a chokeberry posion with a certain combination with an effect of poison fruit on self. Then a poison apple potion with deadly poison (Bypasses all poison resistances) on self. Then cannibal's Prion potion. My question is, seeing as these aren't zero-weight items, is it possible to leave them lying around in a bar or house and have someone drink them? It'd be kind of cool if everyone freaked out because somebody's drink at a bar was spiked. — Unsigned comment by 24.233.128.66 (talk) on 5 September 2009

No. NPCs will only drink potions if they have them equipped, and then only when they need one in combat. --Timenn-<talk> 15:57, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
I believe there's a way to make them drink it. On PC version in Wrye Bash you can select your savegame and set potions weight to 0. (is it possible to set a weight with console for custom potions?). Then I suspect NPC will drink a potion only if it have restore fatigue effect. They drink cheap wine for example when its time to eat. Once the potion created and its zero weight, you can reverse pickpocket them and wait till its a lunch time.

193.227.230.210 04:24, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Amazing Potion

I found a rather peculiar potion after coming back from Sundercliff Watch. First, I'd like to state that my alchemy level is at 100 and I used Expert tools with the exception of my calcinator (Journeyman).

Combine:

  • Flax Seeds
  • Dragon's Tongue
  • Lady's Mantle Leaves
  • Harrada Root

Effects:

  • Damage HP 1 pt. for 1 sec.
  • Restore HP 9 pts. for 34 sec.
  • Feather 190 pts. for 705 sec.

--Master of cheeZ 02:48, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't seem that peculiar. More Useful Potions exist. --Timenn-<talk> 13:40, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Able to choose effect for single-ingredient potions?

When you have 100 Alchemy and you are able to make potions out of one ingredient, is it possible to choose which effect you use to make that potion?

Like if I'm using a Fly Amanita Cap can I make it a Restore Health potion or am I only able to use the first effect (Restore Agility)? --DerSquirrel 01:02, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I may be wrong, because I need to do more research. But if I recall correctly, I believe the potion features All of the effects specified in the 1 ingredient. You will need another ingredient to specify the effect. Grayfox1128 01:08, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

.No, a single ingredient made potion will take the first effect of any ingredient.--S'drassa 01:49, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Guess I was wrong then. Grayfox1128 17:32, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

And there's no way to change this? If I want to make a single ingredient Restore Health potion I will have to find an ingredient that has Restore Health as its first effect? --DerSquirrel 21:57, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
Yes, you will have to find an ingredient which has restore health listed as the first effect. I don't believe there is a way to change this. Talk Wolok gro-Barok Contributions 22:04, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Bug/Glitch for Unique ingredient effects.

I would just like to point this out, but if you combined two unique ingredients (e.g. felldew, Heart of Order) you will make a potion with the first ingredient added.

like if you combined a felldew with a heart of order, you will create a potion that has the felldew effect with it.


dunno if it can be the other way around, or with other ingredients — Unsigned comment by 87.180.142.164 (talk) on 23 November 2009

Moved Edit

A glitch in the game prevents 1 ingredient potions from being made. Because I am at level 100 in Alchemy, and It still will not let me make any potions using 1 ingredient so there is obviously some information missing somewhere — Unsigned comment by 96.233.7.178 (talk) on 13 January 2010

You only need to add it once and then click create if that helps. If not maybe backup and reinstall? Also will not work if you are at 100 because of fortification. 206.53.58.90 08:07, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Moved Note

NOTE: Make sure that if you serve time in jail, make sure that your alchemy skill does not go down. If it does and you have a 100 Alchemy skill level, then you cannot create 1 ingredient potions.

This is something so obvious that I don't think it needs to be mentioned on the page. Besides this applies to all the skills, not particulary this one, so you can easily lose the mastery perks of other skills too. Also it is rather easy to recover from this by simply raising the skill back again, and you can get more level-up exp. points in the process. If someone thinks it needs to be re-added please post why here first. --S'drassa •T2M 00:34, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Wortcraft

Wortcraft should be mentioned. This can actually be a great part of the skill IF you are a hard working herb picker. The reason for this is that you can eat more than 4 ingredients and gain the benefits, making it possible to restore MUCH more or whatever the effect is you try for. Great for example to pick flax on the Gold Coast, Anvil to Skingrad, region and then you can restore huge amounts of Magicka as well as drink potions. This should be mentioned. I am not sure what the limit is or if there is one but it is above 4 because I just tested it and gained 5 effects from wortcraft at once. I believe it should be mentioned on the page because you can use it and potions at the same time for far increased result. To really get something done though you need probably at least 100 herbs. Harvesting 100+ flax is not that hard, would be like a welkynd stone. Also, should mention how much better you get in wortcraft as you level up. Wortcraft is barely on the page ):. 206.53.58.90 08:17, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

It's already mentioned. The reason you can eat as much as you want is that the effect is instantaneous so it doesn't count in the potion limit. On the other hand, each ingredient has so little effect that it's not worth the effort. It's far more efficient to carry one Restore Magicka potion than 100 flax seeds. rpeh •T•C•E• 17:08, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
Not true. Nearly ALL ingredients operate over time, e.g. Arrowroot will Restore 1pt of Agility each second for 3 seconds; Mugwort Seeds 1HP each second for 5 seconds; Rat Meat will Damage Fatigue 1pt each second for 8 seconds, and so on. (Durations may be dependent on Skill - I haven't checked, but I doubt it). The only ones that don't are for effects that have no duration as potions either, e.g. Mandrake Root. Ingredients don't count towards the potion limit because they aren't potions: it's that simple. Your point is true though - it's a lot more sensible to carry a small number of powerful potions than an absurd number of extremely weak ingredients. - Ali
The one advantage wortcraft DOES have is that it can be used to INSTANTLY restore a large amount of Something. Eating 100 Mugwort Seeds will get you 100HP/s for 5 seconds, while a Master-level Restore Health potion is a paltry 13HP/s for 43s. Although the potion is conceptually superior overall, if you're taking 14+ damage per second and are low on health the Seeds are actually the better option. Of course, the standard Strong Potions of Healing are even better in that case, as is having the foresight to drink potions BEFORE you're almost dead, but if you've managed to "fill" all your potion slots with other over-time potions that haven't expired yet, ingredients are the only option you have.

'Poison' potions used like poison apples?

I was wondering if anyone knows if its possible to make an NPC drink a potion? Like a poison apple, because i made a whole bunch of potions that are classified as 'potion's but have the negative side effect that can kill ^_^ Mor'tar'iit 08:16, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Nope. They won't ever drink poisons or potions. rpeh •T•C•E• 08:25, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Damn!! Thanks Rpeh ^_^ Mor'tar'iit 08:26, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

just a thought dont know if this is the place for it but would there be benefit to using deadly poison with sheogoraths protection to escape from those annoying situations where you get yourself stuck somewhere? has anyone done this, or is it already posted somewhere?207.216.130.182 17:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Yes and no, you can teleport to the palace with it but the deadly poison effect will remain and there is no cure. --Wizy 18:00, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Apprentice Apparatus for new characters

The only complete set of Apprentice equipment in the game is housed in Fathis Aren's Tower, on the table on the upper floor of the tower. The location is related to the Thieves Guild quest Arrow of Extrication. It is possible, albeit difficult, to sneak past Fathis, enter the grotto, enter the tower, and take the equipment, all without killing Fathis or being on the quest at the time, though it is a near-impossible (for a level 1 character) and rather epic trek to get to it.

The other "placed" Apprentice items are:

Mortar and Pestle: Fort Sejanus (at the start of the first area)

Retort: Fort Rayles Hall of Winter

Alembic: Fort Cuptor (almost immediately, on the right), Fort Roebeck

Alembic: Chorrol Castle Hall (taking this is theft, though easily managed)

Additionally, Martin will "create" a Calcinator and Retort at Cloud Ruler Temple, but these are obviously not immediately available, and will almost never be acquired at level 1.

So you can "start" the game with 3 out of 4 pieces of an Apprentice set, which isn't bad. It's a pity that the missing piece is one that matters (rather than a pointless Alembic), but the increase in equipment quality can add up to 50% to some potion/poison total effects at level 1 for a character with Alchemy as a major (or pumped minor) skill, and it's 3 less pieces to have to get lucky on.

Greenmote poison?

The base price for greenmote is 0, so when you make a poison of greenmote is the base price still 0? can you make money off of this? Anonymous 70.173.251.65 06:20, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

The poison gets a value based on your alchemy skill - my character's potions were worth 56 gold. I suppose that means you could indeed make quite a bit of money by creating greenmote poisons and selling them. rpeh •T•C•E• 07:47, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Best Poison (( That I have come up with so far anyway ))

This is just a little tip that I came up with for anyone from low levels to high levels, it helps considerably for both. And of course, this poison would have the best effects if one has all master equipment, but a mastered alchemy level is needed for this to have its full affect. Mastery is easily obtained. (( Easiest way would be to get two ingredients that will create a potion/poison. Then use the dupe glitch on the ingredients, create the potion/poison but leave at least one of both ingredients, and repeat until 100 is reached. )) After ones charecter has a mastered alchemy skill, get these ingredients:

  • Harrada - Found in the Oblivion Wastes or most alchemy merchants.
  • Spiddal Stick - Found in the Oblivion Wastes or most alchemy merchants.
  • Steel-Blue Entolama Cap - Found in the Great Forest or most alchemy merchants.
  • Rot Scale - Found in caves in the Shivering Isles. I found mine in Blackroot Lair.

The final effect should have Paralyze, Silence, Damage Health, Damage Magicka, Burden, and Fire Damage.

I hope this helped! If anyone has one better, feel free to edit and leave yours too. I'm working on finding a better one. If I do, I'll be sure to post again. — Unsigned comment by Scruffbox86 (talk • contribs) on 17 August 2010

Thanks, but we've already got that one :-) rpeh •T•C•E• 13:38, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

randomly created pricey potion/poison

My wife was playing one time and had the habit of mixing random alchemy with multiple ingredients. After all the mixing was done she checked the potions she'd made and there was a potion that was worth OVER A THOUSAND GOLD, but since it was all done in bulk by randomly selecting matching ingredients she didnt remember what she had mixed to create this. Any ideas? I didnt think it was possible to create a potion worth that much..207.216.130.182 17:34, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

I don't know for sure, but a Strong Potion of Reflection is 1360 gold, and a Strong Potion of Absorption is 1763 gold and those are the only two that cost more than 1000, so I'd guess that one of those effects must have been included. rpeh •T•C•E• 19:45, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Hmm. Just tried and it still only cost 56 gold. What effects did the potion have? rpeh •T•C•E• 19:53, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

average weight 0.05

What will be the weight of the potion if its ingredient's balance weight is 0.05.(Vvardfell 10:05, 1 December 2010 (UTC))

0.1 as it's the lowest other than 0, and it can only be 0 if all the ingredients weigh 0. Btw I think that 0.05 is impossible without mods, wich weightless ingredient can be combined wih a 0.1 one? --Wizy 08:40, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
Can I ask something? I have items that are labeled '0' weight in-game (I guess these are mod-items, since I haven't noticed any vanilla items doing this), but adding a certain amount of them increases encumberment. So this means they are for example like the ingredient mentioned above, but it states '0' in-game, yes? Sorry if that's a bit off-topic ~ Dwarfmp 10:01, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
Dwarfmp,I am angry about that you post a off-topic reply and canceled my long reply i have just typed.You said that the ingradient mentioned about is not weight 0.05,it is a combine of a 0.1 weight and a zero weight ingradient.

Wizy, since i don't want to type that long again ,i only answer you that question,garlic is a zero weight ingradient,there are many 0.1 weight ingradient can combine with it.It is designed because only if it is a zero weight item , you can reverse pickpocket a garlic to Vicente Valtieri to active the "Weakness to Garlic"(Vvardfell 10:14, 2 December 2010 (UTC))

You don't "lose" your reply if you get edit-conflicted. If that happens, your reply will be present in a second edit window at the bottom of the page. rpeh •T•C•E• 10:45, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
So apparently I can't ~ Dwarfmp 19:13, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

(←) Vvardfell, you are right, I forgot about garlics.
Dwarfmp, I have carried hundreds of poison apples, 13 weightless hoods plus 2k+ lockpicks and my encumbrance was still 0, so if you have mods it may be caused by any of them. --Wizy 21:52, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

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