Morrowind talk:Tel Vos

Guard in Cell

why is there a gaurd in a cell? — Unsigned comment by 76.112.43.191 (talk) at 05:12 on 4 September 2010‎

There is an Imperial guard because it is an Imperial museum. He is on display.

Also, Aryon had the Imperial fort built especially for himself.

ArtificiaLover 01:21, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Imperial - Telvanni

I find it weird that Tel Vos is imperial and Vos is Telvanni. Shouldn't it be the other way around? — Unsigned comment by 142.161.236.115 (talk) on 03 December 2010

Aryon is a modern/reformist type. He is trying to show that you can combine the modern Imperial with the traditional Telvanni. --Brf 02:09, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Getting to Master Aryon

I've found that, even with a modest Acrobatics/Athletics skill (tested with 25 skill in both), one has a reasonable chance of reaching Aryon's Tower if they jump from the west-facing side of the Barracks and Armory tower.— Unsigned comment by 24.247.177.201 (talk) at 04:13 on 17 October 2011

Hidden Door

The wiki says "In Tel Vos, check the northeastern Tower. Look for a hidden door on the second landing from the bottom of the staircase." I don't see any door at this spot. Can somebody gives more information about the location ? — Unsigned comment by 109.88.25.174 (talk) at 20:35 on 18 October 2012‎

If you haven't found it yet and for anyone who is looking for it, you need to go to the bottom of the tower and stop just before the last flight of stairs, then look to your left. The wall conceals the door, and you just have to interact with the wall to open it. OrnluWolfjarl (talk) 01:03, 20 December 2013 (GMT)

In other words, it's on the first landing from the bottom. (If we were counting the landings including the bottom, it would be second, but "from the bottom", it's the first), I'm editing the note to reflect that.

In my experience, the "powerful creature" is always a Dremora carrying an Ebony Broadsword, so I'm also editing that. 74.38.23.12 21:30, 16 October 2014 (GMT)

Nope; this time he has a Daedric Katana, so I'm editing again. 74.38.23.12 23:36, 16 October 2014 (GMT)

A Daedra in Southern Tower

Any time I enter the Southern Tower of Tel Vos, there is a daedra in a room in one of the upper floors (the one where you can exit the tower and be in a small bridge between two towers). There can be any daedra (a dremora, a golden saint, a hunger, a scamp, a wingled twilight, a clannfear, a daedroth, a flame/frost/storm atronach) but an ogrim. Everytime I kill the creature, remove its body, exit the tower and enter it again, there is a new random daedra. It is a great resource of daedric/glass/ebon/dwarven weapons at the earlier stages of the game but I am not sure if it is always in the game or if it is a bug made by Czech translation of the game. — Unsigned comment by 85.160.35.161 (talk) at 13:48 on 8 August 2013‎

I've checked in the CS of vanilla version of Morrowind and I see it too. I have no idea why this isn't covered in the article, but the leveled creature used in the Southern Tower is the exact same as the one placed in the Dungeon section of Tel Vos (one of several Daedra). It could be a part of an unfinished quest mentioned in Beram Journal, but that's only speculation. -- Kertaw48 (talk) 15:22, 8 August 2013 (GMT)

The Key to Free Dro'zharim

Does anyone know where the key is to free Dro'zharim? I haven't found it anywhere, and in all my attempts to pickpocket him, (with Sneak at 89 and Agility spell-augmented beyond 100), it doesn't seem to be on Goler Andrethi even though everything in that part of the Jail seems to belong to him.

I tried my own method of freeing Dro'zharim, (picking the door lock, [easy-and-a-half], and pickpocketing the Slave's Bracelet from him, but he still insists that I need a key to free him. I gather that the developers either failed to anticipate this solution, or disapproved it. 74.38.23.12 21:47, 16 October 2014 (GMT)

Not that you're checking back 9 years later, but...

I think the key that was supposed to free him may have been the Tel Vos Jail Slave Key, console name key_telvosjailslaves_01. However, this key isn't found anywhere in the game. Also, I tried adding a copy of this key to my inventory via the console, and then talking to him again, but he still gives me the "you need the key" line.

Another interesting discrepancy is that his inventory in the CS says that he has a left slave bracer and a common belt, but at least for me, he isn't visibly wearing either of those things. If I try to pickpocket him, the slave bracer shows up, but the belt doesn't.

I'm guessing this might be the result of a cut quest, copy-and-paste oversight by the developers, or similar. 73.185.239.90 06:27, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Three things:

• Technically, he is a pauper, not a slave (see his NPC class). Thus, he can't be freed in the same way as slaves.
• Belts are not visible when worn (see the notes in Base Clothing).
• As for the slave bracer, him having it in his inventory does not necessarily mean him wearing it. This is probably due to him not being a slave (see first point) and is also probably why you were able to pickpocket it off him (you generally can't pickpocket items that NPCs are wearing) Salamangkero (talk) 08:15, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

After an adventure in the Construction Set, I figured it out. As you said, he's not a slave. He does have prisonerScript attached to him, which gives him the prisonerFreed local variable. I believe that causes him to match this dialogue entry, which gives him the "get me out" topic when you speak to him (either through the window in the cell door, or by picking the lock on the door and entering the cell to talk to him). Unfortunately, you can't do anything else about it in Tel Vos.

The three places you can free him are Imperial prisons - Pelagiad, South Wall, Hawkmoth Legion Garrison, and Buckmoth Legion Fort, Prison. You need the Fort Pelagiad Prison Key, Hawkmoth Prison Cell Key, or the Buckmoth Prison Cell Key, respectively. You could use a Command spell to move him, but all three of those places are a long way from Tel Vos, so it'd probably be quite a slog. I went to each of those three prisons myself, picked up the relevant key, used PositionCell on Dro'zharim to move him there, and was able to free him; he thanked me, and then disappeared after I left and re-entered the cell. 73.185.239.90 04:44, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

That is amazing! I thought the whole "take slaves somewhere else so they can be freed" was odd but didn't imagine it also applies to prisoners. Good find! Salamangkero (talk) 08:46, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Tel Vos being originally Imperial

The claim that Tel Vos ever was Imperial (style of construction aside) all seem to boil down to one dialogue entry that states

We've been fortunate. We tested the resolve of the Duke and the other Houses when we grabbed Tel Vos. And we found out they weren't going to fight to protect the settlement charters, we sent out our deviants and malcontents to stake new claims. Some will survive, some won't. Hlaalu and Redoran have to respond. But in the end, the ones that survive will extend our power and influence here on Vvardenfell.

It is certainly a valid reading, but at the same time it leaves the issue of an act of treason and war upon the Empire not being brought up by anyone, the fact that Tel Vos is built in a way very different from all the other forts we can see and that it presence there makes very little sense to begin with. It also requires reaching to explain away Morrowind:Beram_Journal who describes working for the Telvanni on building the place.

Now, if you read the part about "grabbing Tel Vos" as taking over and building a tower despite not having a charter for the settlement you avoid the issue of an outright act against the Empire and nobody mentioning it (since Telvanni taking over places they shouldn't is talked about). Furthermore, breaching the charter is something the other Houses would be opposed to, whereas if Aryon took over an Imperial installation, the tested parties should be the Duke and the Legion (or the Duke and the Empire). It also fits perfectly fine with the contents of Beram's Journals. The fort being planned by Aryon also neatly explains why it looks like it does.— Unsigned comment by 83.23.189.233 (talk) at 13:07 on 8 November 2020 (UTC)‎

The only evidence cited as to why Tel Vos must be a captured imperial fort is the a line of dialogue ("Latest rumours" filtered for House Telvanni in Sadrith Mora):

"We've been fortunate. We tested the resolve of the Duke and the other Houses when we grabbed Tel Vos. And we found out they weren't going to fight to protect the settlement charters, we sent out our deviants and malcontents to stake new claims. Some will survive, some won't. Hlaalu and Redoran have to respond. But in the end, the ones that survive will extend our power and influence here on Vvardenfell."

However, this line references the "grabbing" of Tel Vos as clear evidence of capturing of a Legion fort. Not only is an explicit mention of the capturing of the fort not mentioned anywhere, this same line can be used in the argument that Tel Vos is a mock fort, as in the next sentence, this grabbing is refered to as challenging a "settlement charter", as oppose to outright capturing a fort.

Also, when considering the evidence for Tel Vos being an mock Imperial construction, we have Beram the foreman's journal, which makes explicit reference to new construction plans given by the Telvanni:

I will inform them again of our construction plans (which THEY provided to us)

This, and the fact Tel Vos follows no previous fort or castle construction layout (implying its a fantastical construction designed by someone copying the style for cosmetic purposes, rather than a practical army fort) and also its location which doesn't follow the convention of any other fort placement, making it somewhat illogical for it to be an Imperial fort. — Unsigned comment by ThomasTheWest (talk • contribs) at 13:12 on 8 November 2020 (UTC)‎

The provided source does not mention the Imperial fort at all. On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence that the fort was constructed by Aryon. See, for example: "Vos is an old Velothi farm village in the Grazelands. Dunmer have farmed here for centuries. Life's never been easy, and the Ashlanders have always raided and stolen our wickwheat and marshmerrow. But our new Telvanni mage-lord, Master Aryon of Tel Vos, protects us from the Ashlanders, and he's grown us a fine new tradehouse and docks. Tel Vos is Master Aryon's wizard's tower. It's very strange. You have to see it to understand. Master Aryon isn't afraid to try new things." —⁠Legoless (talk) 14:36, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

The dialogue We've been fortunate. We tested the resolve of the Duke and the other Houses when we grabbed Tel Vos. And we found out they weren't going to fight to protect the settlement charters, we sent out our deviants and malcontents to stake new claims. Some will survive, some won't. Hlaalu and Redoran have to respond. But in the end, the ones that survive will extend our power and influence here on Vvardenfell. tells us that the Telvanni were testing the waters into expansion and found that the settlement charters were not going to be enforced by none of the houses nor the empire. There is evidence to suggest that there was a hostile takeover, especially with the imperial legionnaire imprisoned in the jail cell within the fort.

[1]

The journal doesn't mention anything about the fort being taken over, but you can fill in the gaps. how do you explain the imperial legionnaire prisoner? You are using "I will inform them again of our construction plans (which THEY provided to us) and request that they refrain from such actions in the future." as evidence that Aryon had it constructed. Why cant it be interpreted as renovations or remodeling of the fort?Zebendal (talk) 14:51, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Well, you can explain it that way, certainly, but it means that a thing as big as openly attacking the Empire gets completely ignored in favor of complaining about rogue Telvanni taking over velothi domes and other locals. At the same time, the prisoner could have been kindapped on Aryon's whim just about anywhere. Or would you prefer to argue that Delyna Mandas locked up in Tel Fyr means Divayth took the place over from Redoran? Or that Sadrith Mora was Redoran, due to Neloth having Nartise Arobar locked up (looking at it, almost seems the Telvanni have a theme of kidnapping people - including Fyr, who was Aryon's mentor...). — Unsigned comment by 83.23.189.233 (talk) at 15:30 on 8 November 2020 (UTC)

As the first comment said, when considering the context of other Telvanni take overs, there is a retalliation and acknowledgement from other characters (see Odirniran). When we take this world logic and context, Tel Vos should be targeted for recapture, or at the very least should be treated with more serious implication. However, Tel Vos isn't a captured fort, and when taking a look at the implications and responces expressed to other takeovers in the writing and world-building, the evidence mentioned above makes more sense in the context of Tel Vos being a new construction than a captured fort. There is simply less of a logical leap for Tel Vos to be a new construction built in a mock Imperial fort style than for it to have been captured, for the above evidence and the in-game responses we do see to Telvanni captures. ThomasTheWest (talk) 15:08, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Both sides seem to have good points, but things can be interpreted both ways. I think its possible that it could be constructed, but I see it as more of a possibility that it was taken over by the Telvanni, considering how cutthroat they are and how fitting it is for the house in general. I propose this should be put over in the notes section acknowledging both possibilities, which I believe is the right way to go at it. Zebendal (talk) 15:16, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

(←) we know that there are construction works under telvanni management; however, we do not know wether the whole thing was constructed by telvanni, or just taken over and expanded. Conjecture should not be added to wiki articles. Therefore I propose to just mention the imperial-styled fort, and not the means of its construction. We can present the facts that lead credence to both arguments in the notes section. -- SarthesArai ^Talk 15:53, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

The two theories presented here are not equal and Zeb's theory about it being a captured Imperial fort has zero evidence to back it up. As I said, the "latest rumors" line being cited does not mention the fort at all. The captured Imperial guard is part of Aryon's museum display; he is known for his interest in Western and Dwemer technology. I am opposed to moving this info to the Notes section when we can clearly state on the basis of evidence that Tel Vos was built by Aryon. It takes some serious mental gymnastics to interpret these sources in any other way. —⁠Legoless (talk) 16:02, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

My interpretation of Tel Vos has always been that Aryon, being a young Telvanni upstart, is trying new things by building an Imperial-style fort and growing a mushroom out of it. The dialogue about "grabbing Tel Vos" to me refers to the Telvanni claiming the land around the pre-existing Velothi village. That dialogue is all about the settlement charters; i.e., establishing a new settlement. If there had been a hostile takeover, the dialogue would have reflected that. --Enodoc (talk) 16:23, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Under construction

The other point I want to mention is this alternate interpretation of Beram Journal relies on the assumption that the workmen were hired only to hew out underground jail rooms. This is a misreading of the source material. The jail is not the only area under construction at Tel Vos, as evidenced by the many half-constructed towers which still possess scaffolding in some cases. —⁠Legoless (talk) 16:37, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Indeed. One bit of dialogue I previously overlooked is the Redoran take on the latest rumours one "Redoran is not going to stand by and watch Telvanni setting up those bases without a charter. Ever since we let the Telvanni get away with Tel Vos, they've been sending out wizards and mercenaries to stake their claims on promising sites. And if we don't do something about it, those damn necromancers will end up on our doorsteps.". Fits nicely the idea of Tel Vos being a charterless settlement... — Unsigned comment by 83.23.189.233 (talk) at 16:39 on 8 November 2020 (UTC)

I would say the altered statement is more accurate than the current one (Tel Vos is a mock Imperial fort, with construction of the lower parts still in progress and with traditional Telvanni mushroom structures growing around it.), but I think implying one over the other is unnecessary, so I would suggest something like Tel Vos is a unique blend of Imperial-style fort and traditional Telvanni mushroom tower, with construction of the lower parts still in progress. --Enodoc (talk) 16:47, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

But the construction isn't finished throught the place, not only in the lower parts. — Unsigned comment by 83.23.189.233 (talk) at 16:50 on 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Is it not? My bad, haven't been there for years :D How about Tel Vos is a hybrid of Imperial-style fort and traditional Telvanni mushroom tower, with construction of some parts still in progress. "Hybrid" in the first sentence matches the pre-2016 sentence, before the "it was a captured Imperial fort" bit was first added. --Enodoc (talk) 16:53, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

(←) Your suggestion doesn't seem to be bad Enodoc. I changed it to "The land Tel Vos was built on was taken forcibly. Notably, large sections of Tel Vos are similar in design to Imperial Fort aesthetics." for now. If someone can think of better wording, feel free to alter it further. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 17:28, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Most of what I was going to say has been stated here already. But these are important points against the "Imperial fort fallacy" too:

"Welcome to the village of Vos, %PCName. I'm %Name, and Master Aryon, the Telvanni councilor and mage-lord, is our patron. As you can see, we have a new tradehouse by the docks, and to the west, there's Tel Vos, the wizard tower Master Aryon is building. Isn't it something? Can I help you find someone in particular?"

This dialogue is one of the best arguments. It clearly states that Tel Vos is being built by Master Aryon. And if you actually go into the game and look around, Tel Vos is clearly still under construction - not just a renovation. There is scaffolding on the Imperial towers with unlaid stone bricks. So they're not just digging out the basement. Beram's journal demonstrates that the Telvanni didn't just plant some mushroom seeds. Aryon actually has architects, contractors, and materials for building the settlement in the Imperial style.

"Vos is an old Velothi farm village in the Grazelands. Dunmer have farmed here for centuries. Life's never been easy, and the Ashlanders have always raided and stolen our wickwheat and marshmerrow. But our new Telvanni mage-lord, Master Aryon of Tel Vos, protects us from the Ashlanders, and he's grown us a fine new tradehouse and docks. Tel Vos is Master Aryon's wizard's tower. It's very strange. You have to see it to understand. Master Aryon isn't afraid to try new things."

There's also the omitted evidence. Why would the villagers of Vos be so thankful for Aryon's protection if an Imperial fort existed there before? The legion would have protected the settlement from Ashlander raiders. Even if the fort was still under construction itself before the takeover, the legion would have had a defensive presence to protect their holdings. Indirectly benefiting the farmers. --Melchior Dahrk (talk) 17:30, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

It seems I'm a bit late to this party. :P I saw the original edits last night and questioned the "captured Imperial fort" conclusion as well, but didn't have time to post anything then. I came here today to do so, only to find this has sparked the longest Morrowind-related discussion in years (AFAICT). It seems a bit redundant now, but I just wanted to add that I agree with the points here stating that there's little to no evidence that Tel Vos is a captured Imperial fort. The current wording as amended by AKB reflects the facts presented in the game in a neutral manner without speculative interpretations or conclusions and would seem to be the best way to go here. — Wolfborn↝^(Howl) 23:04, 8 November 2020 (UTC)