Lore talk:Valindor

Notability

I'm not really sure Valindor is notable enough to deserve a lore page. The notability rules state that a person must be noteworthy, "that is, people who have played important parts in noteworthy historical events and who have had substantial effects on the world of TES." I don't really see Valindor being THAT important to the historical events, he's just a quest NPC that's a descendent of a notable individual. A simple mention of him on Harkon's page I think would suffice, rather than a page for someone who doesn't meet the guidelines for notability. The notability guidelines can be found here. Jeancey (talk) 20:26, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

I wouldn’t have made a page solely on the basis of him being a Harkon descendant as there’s quite a few npcs who meet that criteria in Skyrim. What ultimately pushed it over as a noteworthy lore article to me was the combination of both this, and the fact that he had mastered a trait as attested to in his dialogue. We have many lore individuals documented whose main calling card is being a master of a skill or trait, be it swordsman, acrobat, smith, what have you. Based on these two things, I believe Valindor fits the bill and should retain his lore article. Dcking20 (talk) 20:30, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

I agree with Dcking20, I think a character like him just about crosses the threshold, we have characters like Quill-Weave after all. But yeah its the established link combined with the notable skill. Tarponpet (talk) 3:36 PM, 5 December 2023 (EST)

More than notable in my eyes. His smithing expertise is useful for lore:smithing, the descendancy from Harkon adds to his notablitly. Plus even Vingalmo himself says that this person's current situation is useufl for Volkahr. "Valindor of Riften has his ears in places that we'd love to listening in. Joining our family should increase our possibilities in the south."Tyrvarion (talk) 20:39, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Does Valindor have "substantial effects on the world of TES"? I think the more important question is whether characters like Quill-Weave, or others who are only in lore for being a really good smith or acrobat really SHOULD be qualifying.... Him being mentioned as a note on another page, that makes sense to me, but I just don't see a full page meeting the (intended to be strict) threshold. Jeancey (talk) 20:40, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Quill Weaeve is described as extremely popular - she does have an impact on the world. I believe characters like that should qualify. Valindor himself does three separate things that all together are more than enough for notable enough.Tyrvarion (talk) 20:44, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Quill-Weave seems to be basically the ideal example for "authors who don't impact the world beyond being authors" restriction.... Quill-Weave is even less notable than Valindor.... Jeancey (talk) 20:47, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

I think he's notable enough. Personally I think UESP is too strict with notability, but that's an argument for another place. To me, him being a descendant of Harkon is enough reason. CoolBlast3 (talk) 21:23, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

I don't think being a descendant of Harkon makes an NPC notable at all in its own right. Vingalmo's line of dialogue on the matter has controversial implications; it implies that Harkon's mortal line is quite extensive indeed, and even extends to Argonians somehow as is the case with Scouts-Many-Marshes. —⁠Legoless (talk) 18:36, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

(←) My recommendation is that any significant content that is present here that is not currently featured in Skyrim-space should be moved there, the page does not meet the notability standards presented for the Lore:People section. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 10:21, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

I will restate my position once more since the most recent two comments came a bit later after I had already closed the prod based on a one week consensus. I believe Valindor is notable enough to have a lore page for the following reasons

• Ancient bloodline of royalty (Harkon was a king in his day)
• Explicit ability to receive a divine gift that can be traced all the way back to Molag Bal directly based on this bloodline
• Learned the smithing trade under a master armorer in the city of Silvenar, Silvenar being the most holy city in all of Valenwood and thus likely housing some of if not the best smiths in the province, Valindor mastered this trait in his own right to the point he was offered to take over the business.

These three things in conjunction are more than enough together to warrant a lore page imo and thus I believe it should remain. Dcking20 (talk) 11:34, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Again, being related to Harkon is not notable. The source you're relying on implies that many, many people are descended from him. —⁠Legoless (talk) 14:14, 17 February 2024 (UTC)