Lore talk:Sword-singers

Tahmin and Riza

How sure can we be that Riza the Deathless and Tahmin of the Sideways Blade were Sword-singers? I haven't been able to find any texts, or dialogue from them when I encountered in-game, that support this. As far as I know, Riza, Tahmin, and Titus Valerius (who was also not a sword-singer) were members of (self-proclaimed Emperor) Tarish-Zi's royal guard, which would make them high ranking Anka-Ra. Since they were Anka-Ra, and most likely not Sword-singers, that would at most make them Ra Gada, so I don't believe they should be listed on the page. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 20:43, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Indeed, there does not seem to be anything to suggest that they were Sword-singers; I have removed them from the page. —Aran Anumarile Autaracu Alatasel (talk) 08:33, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

It was admittedly based on some inferences, so I'm not too bothered if its removed. We know that Hel Ra citadel was likely a Sword Singer training ground built by the Ra Gada. The Ra Gada who settled that region was Tarish Zi and his Anka Ra. If we accept that the Anka Ra built Hel Ra Citadel to train their soldiers in the highest form of combat, its not unreasonable to say Tarish Zi's very own Yokudan honor guard (minus the foreign Titus) were trained Sword Singers.

Don't forget that Sword Singing is a martial tradition - not a particular type of warrior that can summon a Shehai (they are specifically called an Ansei). This means that all Ra Gada of that period in history can be considered "swords-singers" in the martial training sense (such as "Navid the Singer" who despite his name used an actual metal sword) - but not all of them were Ansei who could summon the Shehai. --Jimeee (talk) 10:54, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

That is true—and I am aware of it—but it is never implied that Tarish-Zi's guard were Sword Singers; the fact that the Ra Gada of Craglorn built a training ground that was likely(!) for Sword Singers is not enough to infer that any specific Anka Ra went there or were trained Sword Singers, especially considering that we do know that there were members like Titus, who most likely weren't Sword Singers. However likely it may be, it is pure speculation to assume that Tahmin and Riza were Sword Singers, and therefore has no place in a lore page. —Aran Anumarile Autaracu Alatasel (talk) 11:20, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Like I said before, I won't argue the removal of them because it isn't explicit in any source as far as I know.

Personally, I think it is indeed enough to infer it being extremely likely. It's internally inconsistent to otherwise assume that Tarish-Zi cut a bloody swath across Hammerfell with an entire army of sword-singers (and yes, the Anka Ra were no doubt Ra Gada "sword-singers" in the martial training sense), then settled in Craglorn and decided his very own personal Yokudan bodyguards were something other than sword-singers (a.k.a. their military). What about Titus? Titus was not Yokudan, so one wouldn't expect him to be a trained Singer. --Jimeee (talk) 11:53, 14 August 2018 (UTC)