Lore talk:Imperial

Imperial = Roman

Soo.. I still hold that there is insufficient evidence that Imperials are connected to Romans at all. More importantly, I think you are taking away the player's right to decide for himself on any human life connections. Which is important because, Cyrodil has a rich history all of it's own, A world completely removed from Earth. — Unsigned comment by 66.102.205.67 (talk) at 16:19 on 17 September 2007‎

There is more than enough evidence that the Imperials are based on the Roman Empire. They all have Roman names, first of all. Their armor is similar to that worn by the Romans, there are many parallels with Roman history and culture, and if that weren't enough, the developpers have been quoted as saying that the Imperials were intentionally based on the Romans. And yes, the Bretons are based on the French. They have French names, and hey, they're called "Bretons", which is a word used in real life to refer to people from Brittany, see Brittany, a province in northern France. And yes, the Nords are based on Scandinavians. They're from the cold northern climates, they have Norse-inspired names, they even look Norse. Also note that we say "based on". There's a big difference between saying that the Imperials ARE Romans and the Imperials are BASED ON the Romans. Obviously there are going to be differences, but only a fool would insist that there is no connection whatsoever when the evidence is so blatantly obvious. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 12:40, 17 September 2007 (EDT)

You're right that Cyrodiil and the world of the Elder Scrolls has its own history but it's quite clear that it draws much from various aspects of Earth and its history. It would be entirely accurate, for instance, to suggest that the minotaurs in the game come from the Greek legend of Theseus and the Labyrinth [1]. In fact, Imps, Trolls, Will-o-the-Wisps, Spriggans, Ogres, Goblins, Skeletons, Zombies, Ghosts, Wraiths and Lichs all come from Earth mythology.

The assertion that there are correlations between Imperials and Romans, Bretons and French (you could add Nords and Scandinavians) seems entirely valid. Whilst it's an Asterix-style stereotype to say that all Roman names ended in "us" for men and "i" or "a" for women, it's not too far wrong as anybody who learned Latin from Caecillius and Metalla will testify. The name of the river flowing through Rome finds a role as the first name of the greatest Imperial hero, Tiber Septim. There are similar coincidences for Bretons.

FOUR different editors have now reverted your edits. Please consider that this shows support for the idea that the - perfectly reasonable - information remains on the page.

--Rpeh^Talk 12:49, 17 September 2007 (EDT)

Thank you for enlightening me. That is something that I can accept as a just resolution to this argument. The sheer number of people who wordlessly change my edits back to the way it was.. doesn't really matter. This info is beautiful and should stay in the talk page. — Unsigned comment by 66.102.205.67 (talk) at 17:00 on 17 September 2007‎

Actually, there are similarities between the Imperial race and the Wikipedia:Aryan race, the characteristics and appearance are very similar. But the similarities with Romans are more striking. Also, Aryan race has now been tainted by the Nazis, much like the Swastika symbol. --Mankar Camoran^{•T•C•E•} 14:30, 16 January 2008 (EST)

Also, from what I know, the Romans were Aryans. --Mankar Camoran^{•T•C•E•} 14:37, 16 January 2008 (EST)

Historically, the Bretons were ancient Britons who migrated to Armorica (now Britanny) to escape the Anglo-Saxon invasions in mainland Britain. This makes them Celts that have adopted French culture/language over the years (although they still have their own Celtic language). Breton society seems to map this in TES: a tribal, celtic society with strong traditional values. Nords are, well, Nordic (in Morrowind they seemed to have Viking habits such as ship burials) and in both Morrowind and Oblivion they seem fond of axes and furs and have religious beliefs similar to Viking tradition. They are also tall as were the majority of Vikings. Imperials are shorter, darker and are definitely based on Romans (their armor and architecture is similar and they have Roman/Italian names mostly). Redguards are dark-skinned and seafaring which links them to coastal African cultures and peoples, however they seem also to be linked to Polynesian folklore (the tradition of migrating to new homelands across great seas.--86.149.229.231 23:19, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

I believe that the imperials are based on Northern, Northwestern, Northeastern and Eastern Mediteranean peoples in general and not just the Romans. The diversity of their skin color ranges from ranges from pale to bronze. The people who resemble them in the real world are Italians, Spaniards, Greeks, Lebanese(descendants of Phoenicians), and Iranians(Persians, Azeris, Kurds...etc.). All of these people were a mix of Indo-European Speaking Peoples(Nords ingame?) and darker Pre-Indo-European peoples(Nedes ingame?). The Imperials excelled in trade like these real-world historical groups did and they created a large empire like each of these peoples did at some point. The gardens of the Imperials also appear to based loosely on Persian Gardens just as the architecture of the Imperials seems to be based partially on Greco-Roman architecture. (Rostam 07:00, 23 December 2010 (UTC))

Also keep in mind that, like in many games, you don't need a region to exist to have names. Pierre in Chrono Cross is not from france, as theres no france there. If we start demanding either total uniqueness or total adherence this can get very very silly. For instance in Morrowind, the names are not unique. They are either direct copies or plays on ancient Mesopotamian names. Heck, they even used the "Tel" prefix for a lot of cities (Though its spelled "tell") — Unsigned comment by 74.128.56.194 (talk) at 21:24 on 10 July 2011‎

Romans or Greek?

Hi I saw that it stood that the empire might referre to the roman empire but then, in oblivion, the imperial guards where wearing an armour looking like the older greek, you know, their helms are just like the once that the greek warriors and some of the greek gods used.

And didn't the romans copy a lot from the greeks? Just a little thought... --Goblin lair 18.26, 14 july 2008

yes they did alot.(Lexlexx1 13:55, 30 August 2008 (EDT))

Well actually the dead guy pictured in the statue inside Chorrol's south gate is wearing a very distinctively Greek helmet. Anyway, note that the Emnpire, at least in terms of names, seems to be also based on the Eastern Roman empire. I've noticed more than a few Byzantine (sometimes Greek-derived) names. I don't think it would be too far fetched to say it's a generic mixture of Greco-Roman culture, mostly based on early Imperial Rome, but also encorporating other elements.— Unsigned comment by 77.49.134.94 (talk) on 25. September 2008

I noticed that a few Imperials do have Byzantine names. Maybe Bethesda just wanted us to know that when the empire collapses, it may split up, like the WRE and the Byzantine Empire. — Unsigned comment by 68.12.52.166 (talk) on October 5, 2007

They are definitely based on Romans however as the guy above said the Romans did take a lot of ideas from the more civilised Greeks. Ancient Greece never kicked off a large Empire- they were mostly warring city states, so there is no real Empirical link (unless you look at the Byzantine Empire which considered itself as Roman anyway).--86.149.229.231 23:23, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

The Empire of Alexander the Great was over 2 million square miles in area at its peak and covered land in three continents. That's a pretty decent empire by anybody's standards. Secondly, "Byzantine Empire" is a term invented by historians to mark the changes made by Heraclius to the Eastern Roman Empire - not least of which was changing its official language to Greek. The inhabitants always called themselves "Romans" right up until the final sack of Constantinople in 1453. The Imperials are based largely on Rome but it's impossible to avoid certain Greek elements creeping in. rpeh •T•C•E• 12:22, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Alexander the Great wasn't Greek, he was Macedonian. There is in fact a slight difference. julio144 19:40, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm aware that he was King of Macedon, but to quote Historian Colin McEvedy: "Not only was Alexander undoubtedly Greek, he also Hellenized his fair share of barbarians." As you should know, at most times, there was never a "Greek Empire"; rather it was a series of city states and trading networks with sometimes similar, sometimes directly opposing views. You may as well say that Plato wasn't Greek, he was an Athenian. rpeh •T•C•E• 19:59, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm from Greece and I am stepping in. I believe that the names of the Imperials look like mostly Roman names, but everything else points to Greece. First as rpeh pointed above, Alexander's empire, which was huge, it covered the entire Greece, all of Asia expect the extreme Eastern parts and north Africa. Second, as Goblin lair pointed above, after the Romans conquered Greece, their culture was greatly affected by the Greek culture. And third, the Imperial Watch armor, does look like the ancient Greek armor, especially the helmet. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 16:36, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to pop in, even though the answer to the original question is both blatantly obvious and already explained. Imperials are based on Rome, take the names, the Legion and the dragon (replacing the eagle) as the most obvious examples. In relation to armor, Oblivion is an especially bad guide: the armor is definitely more mediaeval than Roman; and Rigas is right, the helmet is Greek (centurions had horizontal "feathers" rather than vertical). But take Morrowind. If someone tells me that's Greek I'll cut their head off for offence to history! ;) Oblivion's recounting of the fall of the empire is much like that of WRE - Alexander's didn't abruptly collapse, it disintegrated slowly as the diadochs fought each other. Yes it is true that the Greeks influenced Rome, but Rome certainly did not inherit imperialism from Greece; and since that is the main factor, there appears to be no doubt that Imperials and the Empire are based on Ancient Rome... with a bit of Greek thrown in :P --SerCenKing ^Talk 18:46, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Moved from the Article

Although Imperials are, by no means, the most hated race in Tamriel, they are strongly disliked due to their expansionistic tendencies, and there have been many rebellions throughout history against Imperial Control. While each race have their squabbles with other races, each race in Tamriel have a tangible reason to dislike the Imperials in the fact that their homelands are controlled by these outsiders. This makes the Imperials one of the most generally disliked races in Tamriel. Even the people who accept and the Imperials tolerate them reluctantly. Let us take the situation in Morrowind for example: Hlaalu, on the surface, mostly supports the empire. However, the Hlaalu are also the basis of the Cammona Tong, who hate outsiders of Morrowind. Why would they hate outsiders? The most logical reason would be hatred stemming from outsider control-especially Imperials-in their lands. The Ashlanders, Ordinators, Tribunal Temple, and House Telvanni are all hostile to outsiders who don't accept their beliefs and ideals. Consider the fact Ashlanders have largely hoped for the Nerevarine because of hopes that he will drive outsiders out of Morrowind. Odds are outlanders are largely tolerated only because of the treaty made by and their acceptance by the Tribunal themselves, and even then only by those who either respect the Tribunal or like the empire.

This is all guesswork and opinion. If you have references, please supply them. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 09:55, 25 May 2009 (EDT)

Imperial Mages

Do they do well...? I'm level 5 and I'm wondering about my character's future as she progresses into a stronger Mage. Cirith Mara 23:36, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Nirn or Tamriel?

Per this edit, I'm not sure which is right. The anonymous user is correct that it seems that Tamriel is Mehrunes Dagon only target is Tamriel. In fact, Mankar Camoran never mentions Nirn when he talks about their plan, only Tamriel. However, it seems rather silly to only go after one continent on the planet. Still, we have no proof that the Oblivion Crisis extended outside of Tamriel.

I'm fine with either version, though I prefer the old version. However, I don't think this is clear cut enough to go by my own opinion. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 01:02, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm inclined to say the article should just state 'Tamriel' if indeed Mankar never mentions Nirn. Given the mysteries enshrouding the rest of the planet, there could be unknown implications associated with conquering all of Nirn. --Nephele^Talk 01:12, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

I've went through the game dialogue to confirm that this was correct (Not that I needed too, the linked article lists his speeches), the only mention of Nirn I could find comes from The Prophet. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 01:17, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

I think that's my bad; "Tamriel" is likely more appropriate, as it's what a citizen of Tamriel would write. I wrote "Nirn" (I think) because I didn't think Dagon, whose very nature is unbridled ambition, would be aiming for something as little as a continent. The citizens of Tamriel didn't view it like that because they don't think on a global scale, and gave no consideration to Dagon's inevitable invasion of Akavir, Atmora, etc., once he was done with Tamriel. Minor Edits 04:37, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Problems with Camoran's speech have been pointed out before. Why would he say "Tamriel is just one more Daedric realm of Oblivion", when the planet is Nirn? It's quite possible he's been lied to by Dagon, unless this is where we get another huge retcon and it turns out that no other continents exist and have always just been metaphors. In either case, we'll probably get more information on the Oblivion Crisis in three weeks and a day. rpeh •T•C•E• 06:04, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps Nirn isn't mentioned due to the Septim bloodline living only in Tamriel. It could also be that Tamriel is the main continent as how Britain used to be for the real world, with the main royalty (in this case Empire) ruling the world from one place, but having grips in all the rest of the world. Or it could simply be an oversight from the producers/script writers and they made a mistake.--Dro'Bakha 07:46, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Cyro-Nord vs Imperial

It says that the Imperial race was called "Cyro-Nord" before "the time of Talos", but in TES O, they are called Imperials, not Cyro-Nords. Oversight by the devolopers or an error on the UESP's behalf? --Resonance Gamer (talk) 05:49, 9 June 2014 (GMT)

I think it can be just chalked up to a "we don't know when things started, so we picked a point" from an in-game perspective. The adjective "imperial" simply refers to members of an empire. Cyrodiil, and the humans who live there, have ruled over two empires at the time of ESO, including one just a few hundred years before the start of ESO. Imperial is an apt description of those people. It is likely that the term "cyro-nord" hasn't actually been used since the early first era. Jeancey (talk) 05:52, 9 June 2014 (GMT)

They're called "Imperial Cyrods" in ESO actually. —Legoless (talk) 16:09, 9 June 2014 (GMT)

I have a problem with the sentence "Known as Cyrodiils, Cyrodilics[1] or Cyro-Nordics before the time of Talos". First of all, even if the word "Cyrod" is used in ESO, the word "Imperial" is at least as widely used to describe them. The sentence is not properly referenced. Footnote 1 links to the chapter on Cyrodiil in the Pocket Guide to the Empire, 3rd Edition, and I couldn't find anything in there that supports the idea that before Talos they were called Cyrodiils, Cyrodilics or Cyro-Nordics instead of Imperials (unless I overlooked something? Please check). I would rephrase the whole sentence as "Also known sometimes as Cyrodiils, Cyrodilics, Cyro-Nordics or Imperial Cyrods, the well-educated..." Feynn (talk) 14:52, 23 April 2015 (GMT)

I'd support this change. The current wording suggests that the word "Imperial" was not used at all before the time of Talos. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 15:14, 23 April 2015 (GMT)

It wasn't used in Redguard, although I'd agree that ESO has pretty thoroughly retconned it. —Legoless (talk) 19:05, 23 April 2015 (GMT)

Misused UOL?

Sanguine has been a favorite for several Emperors since the foundation of the first Empire. During the reign of Reman Cyrodiil records indicate Sanguine resided in White-Gold Tower where he is said to have helped Reman with the dubious draftsmanship of the Crendali Festivals. The vulgarities found within these festivals did nothing but hinder Imperial expansion efforts within the Summerset Isles during Reman Cyrodiil's tenure.

This paragraph is entirely UOL and doesn't really feel like it belongs here in my opinion. It doesn't expand on what is already canon like UOL is supposed to (from my understanding), and even seems to directly contradict the purported widespread Imperial distate for Daedra worship in the previous paragraph. Mindtrait0r (talk) 20:49, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Could be moved to Lore:Sanguine where it might be more relevant. —⁠Legoless (talk) 22:00, 2 July 2023 (UTC)