Lore talk:Factions B

Blood Horkers

Should there be a detail added to the blood horkers mentioning how the Shatter-Shields hired them?64.135.48.170 13:56, 1 July 2013 (GMT)

Removal of Sources

I'm making this post in regards to Jeancey edit removing references from the list under the summary of "References don't belong on Appendices pages, per lore guidelines".

First, upon checking the lore guidelines I found that references are not forbidden from being placed in Appendices as can be seen here: "Lore:Appendices Generally, sections for notes, a gallery, and references should be included if they're feasible (in many cases, they're not). Appendices often follow special citation rules." However, these special rules do not seem to be expanded on and may need further discussion in order to clarify them. Having uncited information is much closer to violating the lore guidelines: "Cite Your Source: In general, every sentence should be cited using proper in-line citations", by removing the references this information is now uncited. I will focus more on "The Beautiful" entry in this case as the other removed references where a generic "events of [Game]" and weren't particularly useful in the first place.

On Discord, AKB said "We shouldn't be putting references on these pages. If there is enough information for references, it should be its own article that is transcluded to that page.", which makes sense for larger descriptions. However, taking "The Beautiful" entry as an example it is only two lines. Now I'm not clear on exactly how much information is needed for an article but, I don't think two sentences really qualifies. Though this is information that should be cited so we have enough information for a reference but not enough for an article.

In cases such as "The Beautiful", I think having references is an acceptable exception to not having references in appendices. Enderkingdev (talk) 02:32, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Enderkingdev is correct—by removing the sources on the only lorespace entry that these factions have, the removal of sources in pursuit of a nebulous ideal has effectively created unsourced information. Though of course subjective, it is presumable that the guidelines for sourcing information is of more value than the following of formatting guidelines which, as Enderkingdev has said, exist only in a peripheral mention with detail none. Ignoring the obvious temptation to debate the value of maintaining entries on these factions in lorespace, the existence of unsourced information—especially where sources once existed for it—is an issue of more importance than the implementation of "special citation rules" which have apparently not been articulated in form written within UESP's guidelines. — J. J. Fullerton _﴾talk﴿ 03:16, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

If anyone is worried about how long an article needs to be before it is created, please see Order of the Candle. It is one of many of similar length and just the first I came across looking for an example. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 18:47, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

You can find the sources in the history still. I'd suggest just using that to make new pages, rather than reverting, making new pages, and then transcluding. I just made the edit based off the fact that we generally don't use sources here if the information is not controversial (i.e. no one disputes that the Blood Horkers are a group of pirates, it doesn't need a source here for that. But it should probably have a page, and then transclude the intro blurb here.) Jeancey (talk) 02:39, 5 May 2019 (UTC)