Lore talk:Dawnfang and Duskfang

Talisman of Abetment

The Talisman (try comparing it to Dawnfang)

All mention of this talisman was removed from the page on the grounds of being "original research". This is an entirely invalid reason to remove what amounts to little more than a statement of fact on the similarities between Dawnfang and the Talisman. I've reverted the removal for now.

Our guidelines against original research in lorespace are as follows:

Original research is strongly disfavored in UESP articles. Even if a series of statements can logically be put together to reach a conclusion, that conclusion does not belong on UESP unless it has already been stated elsewhere (in valid source material).

A core goal of the UESP wiki is to summarize what's already known, like any encyclopedia, rather than to come up with new information.

Exceptions to this rule may be possible, but those exceptions need to be discussed on the talk page beforehand.

Per the above, original research is not entirely banned from lorespace. I disagree with the contention that this even constitutes original research, but for the sake of argument let's assume it does; I believe an exception needs to be made regardless.

Unlike Bloodthirst, there is no direct citation to create an actual link between Dawn/Duskfang and the Talisman. However, you will note from the current wording on the page that no "logical conclusion" is reached; we are not claiming that there is any link between the two items. The note remains neutral and simply states the facts as they exist: (1) the Talisman is visually identical in style to Dawnfang, and (2) the Talisman is found in the possession of the same group that found Dawn/Duskfang. These are indisputable and noteworthy facts, or in other words we are summarising what is already known. It is not original research to present them to the reader.

For something to be considered original research, there must be no source material. For our purposes, the in-game model of the Talisman is the source material, and the similarities between it and Dawnfang are remarkable:

• Both possess identical orange gemstones.
• Dawnfang's crossguard and the Talisman's metal are identical, resembling scaled burnished gold.
• Both possess a similar and distinctive serpentine shape.

Even if this is deemed too speculatory to establish a genuine connection, it remains absolutely noteworthy and I see no constructive reason to remove the note from the page.

If all of the above doesn't convince you, perhaps this firsthand account of Dawn/Duskfang's discovery among a trove of Tsaesci relics will: "Inside the cloth was a bunch of stuff, but the best was the sword." We know the group found more than just the sword, so it really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone to find another similar relic in their possession. —Legoless (talk) 16:46, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

I agree with Legoless here. The amulet resembles the Hilt of Dawnfang greatly. Has orange gems and a snakeskin pattern. It was also found alongside dawn/duskfang. I think while it is inappropriate to state that it is identical like noted in a previous edit, saying they appear similar in appearance is more accurate.Zebendal (talk) 18:03, 24 June 2019 (UTC)