Lore talk:Battlespire

Replacement?

First, sorry, I'm not well versed on the lore beyond that presented in TES3-4 but this slipstream concept, as well as the "outer realms" mentioned in some books, by the last living Dwemer, and explored in mods such as Children of Rourken Episode 1 (TES4) is fascinating. Medieval swordplay and "tactical magic" are fun staples of fantasy games but some true fantasy depth can be found in exploring the far reaches of a canon beyond what most would consider an ordinary world. Also, on a more practical note this article is a stub in need of improvement...which ever way its looked at some questions need answering.

Questions: Is this considered canon? If so...

• What was the origin of the battlespire?
• How and why was it constructed?
• Could it be rebuilt?
• What was its strategic and tactical value beyond training? (e.g. why "battle"-spire? or as an imperial stronghold what did it safeguard? secrets? strategic reserves? platform to launch invasions of Oblivion?)
• Are there any other "slipstream" locations? (no search results)
• What sort of magic was involved in accessing the slipstream? (e.g. for lore compliance with future mods)
• This suggests highly advanced technology masked in fantasy magic (so the saying goes), does this have some basis in quantum mechanics or string theory, or TES equivalent nature of existence type model? If so, perhaps it could be connected to other uses or domains of magic in an overarching model providing a basis for mods to create lore compliant portals, teleportation networks, extra dimensional pockets (e.g. of the type often used for house mods), power wells, and so on...and by deduction indicate what should be present if a mod were to pop open an access panel on some of the existing teleporters, ruins, gates, etc. Could even hint at the nature of the various deities by placing their "level" of existence in context.

Overall its helpful to examine some of this stuff from a technological, practical, or "theory and practice" perspective, rather than historical within a canon context as is too common with lore. --MegaBurn (humble guest) 69.43.4.218 07:32, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

I'll attempt to answer your questions as best I can. Yes, the Battlespire is canon.

• The origins are unknown.
• It was constructed for magical training, I assume because it was a small realm with access to Oblivion but where experiments would have no detrimental effects on Tamriel.
• I guess it could be rebuilt, but again it's unknown.
• It was built as the training academy of the "Shadow Guard", some mysterious magically-oriented section of the Imperial Legion. It was also an out-of-realm stronghold used for easy access to Oblivion.
• None that I know of.
• Teleportation. The "Pillar of Light" - some strange metallic device found on a tiny island - zaps you up.
• I don't think the devs thought to hard about it. It was made with magic, end of. If you want to put more depth behind it, there's no lore explanation stopping you from creating a mod.

There isn't much information about the Battlespire. We know it has five "anchors" which stop it from being destroyed, we know that it was destroyed when Mehrunes Dagon was defeated, we know the attacking Daedra bore Daedric Crescents that were smelted down in the aftermath (all but one), and we know what little insight the Battlespire opening cinematic provides. This article isn't marked as a stub because it really isn't - that's the most info we have. Legoless 11:22, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

It seems as though the concept of a Slipstream Realm is a case of circular reporting as far as I can tell, the term didn't show up until Fa-Nuit-Hen's interview. Unless there's some undocumented text in Battlespire/Morrowind that mentions slipstreams in any regard. Athaneum asserts its in Aetherius and I'm guessing some other sources say its on the edges of Mundus while eso wants to go with it being in Oblivion. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 03:46, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Dates?

What are the dates (or date ranges) for the events of the Battlespire? There are references to Jagar tharn so It is presumably between 3 E 389-399, but I was hoping someone might have something more specific. — Unsigned comment by 205.210.222.150 (talk) at 16:53 on 8 May 2013‎ (GMT)

Nothing more specific is available. —Legoless (talk) 17:02, 8 May 2013 (GMT)

Zenas and ESO

Removed by Vordur, with the reason "since ESO retconned Zenas into the Second Era, this no longer makes sense":

Many years after Dagon's invasion was defeated, the mage Morian Zenas and his apprentice attempted to use the Weir Gate to enter Oblivion. They found that although the gate still stood and the shattered academy remained accessible from Mundus, the link to Oblivion had been broken.

I think it's still worth mentioning somehow, either with a {{intnote}} on that paragraph, or in a separate Notes section. They completely removed the "Ruins of the Battlespire" paragraph from The Doors of Oblivion book in ESO, but it still exists in the pre-existing Third Era copies. The only way to know for sure whether it's been retconned out completely is how the book appears in TES6, and until then I think we should still mention it. --Enodoc (talk) 20:10, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

This appears to be another case of the horrible decision to alter books to fit the time-period of ESO without thought of how it may affect wider established lore. Removing the obvious paragraph referring to the Battlespire allows the book to appear without conflicting with that time. However it is the counter-retcon of Zenas' journey ending before this time (in order that the book is published) that means he cannot visit the ruins, thus the paragraph is now unable to be re-added in TES6 without being in conflict with the new chain of lore. PS Yes it should be mentioned as a note, ESO was not supposed to be this careless with lore and should write new books that fit the time instead. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 20:41, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

If this was just about removing the paragraph, then it'd be fine. But Zenas actually was made one of the characters in the story told by the Crafting Motifs series, and like the Silencer said, if TES 6 re-adds it then it'll screw things up even further. I don't like this way of altering books either (removing paragraphs mentioning Third Era stuff), but luckily there seems to be just a few cases like this. How about modifying the note to something like this:

"According to The Doors of Oblivion, years after Dagon's invasion was defeated, the mage Morian Zenas and his apprentice attempted to use the Weir Gate to enter Oblivion. They found that although the gate still stood and the shattered academy remained accessible from Mundus, the link to Oblivion had been broken. However, this is contradicted by the Crafting Motifs series, according to which the two lived in the Second Era."

This way we keep the info and don't assume either version. --Vordur Steel-Hammer (TINV1K) 21:56, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

Yeah I think that's a good way of doing it. --Enodoc (talk) 22:35, 15 July 2017 (UTC)