Arena talk:Hints

Additional sections?

• Beyond hints for thievery, what other things can we add here? I do have a "detailed Pros & Cons for each class in the game" section in mind myself, but that would require a substantial amount of play through (just playing the game with my Bard character, I'm only really starting to get a solid feel for the class around LV. 11-13, and thats after getting the second staff piece). On the one hand, I don't really want to put up an incomplete section right away with just one class, but on the other hand any updates with other classes can be added easily. I'll throw something up for the Bard for now, and if others want to add on other classes, great. If it looks wonky, perhaps we could revert it. LordHaHa 19:29, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes, go ahead and create it. You may want to put an {{Incomplete}} or {{Stub}} tag on it to indicate that it's incomplete and encourage other editors to contribute. It's my intent to play the game at some point myself, though it may not be for a while, so I'll add to it if it still needs it once I get there. As previously mentioned, I can also fact-check directly against the code, though that can (as demonstrated) be a bit iffy, since I'm not a professional reverse-engineer. ‒ Robin Hood↝Talk 20:03, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Quick thought then; I'm pretty certain that the Thief-related classes have a certain chance to successfully steal something in a shop, and that the base chance is class specific (for example a straight Thief, by level, has a better chance to steal an item than a night blade). I think it's a bit like critical strike in that regard. Formula or rates for things like that (including Knight item repair rate, Ranger "improved fast travel" rate, etc.) could be added to the classes section in the fifth "Special" row (along with Critical Strike rates, max. spell points, etc.) that I've been adding recently. That section would be essentially complete if such data were entered into it. LordHaHa 21:33, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

You're correct, there is a class-specific modifier to the chance. The actual calculation is somewhat complex and includes things I haven't tracked down what they do yet, so I can't give you all the details, but I can tell you that it's modified by both your class and level, and I see some multiplying by 100 in places, so it's probably percent-based. The portion of the formula that I understand goes like this:

(rest of formula) / Modifier * Level

The modifiers are:

Class	Modifier
Nightblade, Bard, Rogue, Acrobat	4
Burglar	2
Thief	3
Assassin	5
All Other Classes	8

So let's say for argument's sake that the "rest of formula" comes up to 8, then for a 10th-level Nightblade, the chance would be 8 / 4 * 10 = 20%; for the same-level Burglar, it would be 8 / 2 * 10 = 40%; and for an Assassin, it would be 8 / 5 * 10 = 10% (it's all integer math so remainders just get dropped and 8 / 5 = 1). ‒ Robin Hood↝Talk 03:14, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the rough formula. I would think that AGI, INT & LUC probably play a role in some way (along with some random numbers). Still, it's good to get things narrowed down a little more. This information is obviously not complete, but - pending a reasonable way to add it to the class descriptions without giving anyone the wrong maths - do you mind if I add this stuff to the class descriptions? LordHaHa 03:35, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Those three attributes would make sense. I haven't figured out a whole lot of the character attributes, skills, etc., yet, but from the design, chances are those are some of the unknowns I was looking at. And yes, I think adding the information to the class descriptions in a general sense (i.e., "Burglars are better at stealing than any other thief class") would make a lot of sense. ‒ Robin Hood↝Talk 06:24, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

I've figured out a bit more and you were right that Intelligence and Agility are a direct part of the formula. Luck isn't part of it directly, but I haven't figure out how Luck works yet...it may, for example, modify the random number generator or something very indirect like that. Anyway, the formula as I have it now is:

(Agility + Intelligence) / Modifier * Level * 100 / SomethingElse

I've written it that way, even though it's a bit confusing, so that you can see where the divisions take place. Every time division happens, round the result down before doing the next calculation (e.g., a first-level thief with Agility 63, Intelligence 44, would get 107 / 3 (=35) * 2 * 100 / SomethingElse, or 7000 / SomethingElse. My best guess for "SomethingElse" is that it may be a difficulty modifier. Once all that calculation is complete, it's limited to a maximum of 100. There seems to be another calculation in there as well, but it's not done directly as part of that function, so that'll take time to figure out...that might be Luck kicking in, it's hard to say. This is about as far as I'm likely to get any time soon, unfortunately, as most of what remains will be harder to trace through. ‒ Robin Hood↝Talk 09:20, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

(whistles) Did a 50 AGI/50 INT test with those numbers for each character type. The non-Thief classes get even more hosed than I first thought. But surprisingly the differences between Assassin to Thief are less pronouced, though the Burglar has a distinct advantage over them. Thanks for the update! Now if we can only find out some of the other formulae (Knight's armor repair rate, Ranger's fast travel modifier, Monk's combat modifiers), most of the classes could be fully documented. LordHaHa 20:32, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Races analysis

Considering the special abilities of some of the races in the game, I'm going to start up a new section where I pair up a specific race with a specific character class and see how they complement or detract from each other. This will hopefully complement the "Class Analysis" section currently under development. Additionally, since some of the races do not have their abilities fully documented on the Races page (such as the Argonians; they always seem to be getting some stick...), I will be ommiting some until those abilities are so documented. LordHaHa 20:38, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Actually, considering these are general oberservations, the general information availible will be just fine. LordHaHa 21:26, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Additions

I am trying to generate a little new interest in this oldy and moldy. It was actually a very fun game, if repetitious, and there is a lot of subtlety involved. What is nice about the game is there is no ultimate tank character except at very high levels, and getting smushed flat around the next corner is always possible. Preparation and ingenuity is mandatory in many of the situations encountered. — Unsigned comment by Sniffles (talk • contribs) at 00:37 on 2 November 2010

It's very much appreciated. At some point, I intend to go through all the games, but other projects or interesting games just seem to keep coming up, and I never quite get around to it. One thing I think would be good if you have a few minutes is to transfer all the class tips to Arena:Classes and figure out what to do with the class/race section below it. – Robin Hood↝talk 15:33, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, the classes could use an overhaul and a bit of fleshing out. In actuality, exploring the potentials of the various classes and subclasses can be as interesting as the game itself. (You can only crawl the same four format dungeons so many times before finding yourself sitting in a corner on the floor and humming songs of one note to yourself). The big Q is where to put the energy where it is the most useful. The entire thing could use major revision, many of the FAQ's are incomplete and could be pages of their own, there are loads in inaccuracies and so on. My thinking was to fix and fluff up some of the major highlights and male the game as easy as possible to install, get running, and play. I'll be contemplating the classes thing. Suggestions most readily appreciated!118.172.11.6 00:09, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree that the class and race analysis section could use some work. The best way to finish this up would be to look at the abilities (specifically, how the bonuses/penalties play out mathematically) of each class and race, and then do a playthrough to see how they operate in the "real world". Of course, the only problem with that route is that it would be very time consuming. In any event, perhaps we should implement additional sections to tidy things up a bit. LordHaHa 02:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Arena Classes & Races: Quick Combination Thoughts

Moving this from the article, as it was never finished and is awfully subjective for an encyclopedic article. I don't want the information to be lost though, so here it stands! eshe^talk 19:21, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Complementing the above section on player classes, this article researches possible character combinations paired with the natural abilities of the races you may choose in the game. This section is less about distinct pros and cons, and more about how well two distinct but important factors in character creation can come together, and optimize your builds.

Thief Classes

Bard

• Argonian: An interesting combination; they have a generally thief/mage bent with their attributes, and they also lose less stamina when swimming (which you will have to do a fair amount of on occasion). They make a rounded class even more rounded.
• Breton: A good pick for the Bard; not only does the Breton's magery bent give them good WIL to resist magical attacks (and good INT to sling some hits right back at them), but those attacks will be either half-damage or no-damage (depending on a successful save). At later levels, this will go a long way to protect Bards from dangerous spell-slinging critters like Liches.
• Dark Elf: The to-hit and base damage bonus innate to Dark Elves can help Bards survive the lower levels, and at higher levels this helps make their critical hits that much more painful for foes to deal with. A recommended pairing.
• High Elf: The mage-focus of this race is nice, but considering that Bards have two kinds of ranged games open to them (bows and/or spells), the immunity to paralyzation is less useful than it could be.
• Khajiit: Khajiit make good Bards; they are statistically oriented to thievery and their ability to jump beyond two squares away naturally saves precious magicka that would otherwise be used for Levitation spells.
• Nord: Resistant to cold-based attacks, Nord Bards are well-suited to the Skyrim levels and thus the lower levels of the game. Beyond Skyrim, though, creatures that use such attacks are less common, limiting the effectiveness of the Nord Bard at later levels to a degree. The good fighting game of the Nord, however, pushes him into the recommended pile.
• Redguard: Redguards can actually make excellent Bards. Their racial to-hit/base damage bonus is better than the Dark Elves but only applies to melee attacks. If you plan on a primarily melee-based game (which works just fine for a higher level Bard), you could have a real killing machine on your hands.
• Wood Elf: Since they get a to-hit/base damage bonus similar to the Redguards in relation to ranged weapons, pick the Wood Elf for a Bard with a ranged combat game. The nimbleness of the Wood Elf is also a great bonus for a starting Bard just trying to survive.

Sounds of enemies

As written in the page, each enemy (or "monster") has a specific sound. Does anyone know where I can hear a full list of the sounds per enemy, so that I can recognize them immediately by their sound? Because sometimes thou hear a sound but the monster still isn't visible or still far, and I don't have an idea what it might be if unfamiliar. 212.186.15.63 10:37, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Inherent Memory Problems?

I see this mentioned a lot, but I never see any details. Yes, I know the game requires a hefty amount of conventional memory - although it will start with less than the 603KB requirement mentioned in the Addendum. Our DOSBox information suggests setting memory to 64MB, while the original game sets expanded memory at 2.8MB. It does recommend setting it higher if you have more memory, but at a certain point it isn't helping and some games even have problems if you have more memory than what is expected. More memory also only helps with certain memory problems, not all of them. DOSBox's recommendation is the default 16 and I haven't had any problems leaving it. I also know the game will sometimes crash and give a message like "Memory out of Bounds". However, I'm also finding that many of these memory problems occur when playing with a game that didn't avoid one of the game's save file glitches. It seems that there are many things that can mess up a save game file and the main game doesn't have a mechanism for weeding out bad information. It assumes it's true and then ends up making calls for things in the wrong place or that don't exist. Going too far in the wilderness or crashing while talking to NPC's are big problems, but they have specific (non memory) causes which more memory won't fix. Playing with the Morning Star bug, causes all kinds of subtle problems, but it isn't really a memory problem, it's a problem with the save game file. I don't have a problem believing that it possibly has memory problems, but I'd like more details to know this isn't a catch all for "we don't know". I guess this feels dismissive to me. With much of the anecdotal evidence stating the game crashes occur more with modern systems or under DOSBox, I feel like Arena gets judged even before you learn how to play it. Yes it does have some major glitches, but I'm beginning to think we may be misjudging. --Satribe (talk) 14:17, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

EDIT: Sorry. This is mentioned as the first thing under "Helpful Tricks" --Satribe (talk) 14:22, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

The Helpful Tricks sections draws the conclusion that most of the memory crashes are related to v1.06. While I test most versions, I mostly play 1.07. I need to test longer play sessions with 1.06 to see if it has more memory problems or if both are mostly connected to game save glitches. --Satribe (talk) 04:53, 1 February 2021 (UTC)